2. Pastor Kimberly Bulgin (Seventh-day Adventist) – The Sisters Stay Dropping Gems: Reclaiming Women’s Stories in Scripture

🎙️ 2. Pastor Kimberly Bulgin (Seventh-day Adventist) – The Sisters Stay Dropping Gems: Reclaiming Women’s Stories in Scripture

Alexis Rice welcomes Pastor Kimberly Bulgin—Seventh-day Adventist trailblazer, global leader, musician, and author of The Sisters Stay Dropping Gems: What Women in the Bible Teach Us About Life, Love, and Relationships. Pastor Kim shares what it actually costs to challenge patriarchy from the inside, why women’s stories in Scripture have been flattened into stereotypes, and how Jesus’ treatment of women dismantles modern purity culture and hierarchy.

Pastor Kim also opens up about being among the first women ordained in her region—celebration and pain held together—and offers language that will set many listeners free: “When you break glass ceilings, the glass can cut you.”

✨ In this episode, we talk about:
 • The resistance (and real-world backlash) women face in ordination
 • Why congregations need spiritual preparation to receive women pastors
 • What Seventh-day Adventists are known for: Sabbath, second Advent, health, and service
 • “Modern-day Rahabs” and why the church must stop treating women as problems to solve
 • Re-reading the Woman at the Well with complexity, dignity, and liberation
 • What Jesus’ public, unashamed posture toward women reveals about God
 • Stick around until the end for a closing prayer for anyone who hasn’t been prayed over in a long time

📖 Featured Book
 The Sisters Stay Dropping Gems — www.kimberlybulgin.com/shop.

Exclusive promo code for listeners/viewers of The Sacred Slope.  Those that enter the promo code SACREDPOD will get a 10% discount off physical copies of Pastor Kim's book.

🎵 Music
 Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin, and Sean Spence

💌 Nominate a guest (pastor, priest, artist, or everyday person anywhere in the world):
 Alexis @ thesacredslope.com

#Christianity #deconstruction #MentalHealth #womeninministry #womenintheBible #SeventhdayAdventist #purityculture #churchhurt #faith #Jesus #womenleadership

Transcript

Kimberly Bulgin (00:00)
One of the things that my denomination still wrestles with is ordaining women. that's still something that we struggle with till this day. We are making strides, thanks be to God, where women are being ordained, but as a large body, there's still a lot of resistance.

So I'm grateful that the particular union that I was a part to ordain me as their first woman to be ordained within that specific region. It was a big deal. Yay. God thanks for that. time. was.

Alexis Rice (00:39)
Yes, praise God. Yes, amazing.

Also, what took them

so long?

Kimberly Bulgin (00:45)
Right. the politics and the policies and just the deeply entrenched takes a lot to overcome those things, but I'm really grateful to the administration at that time that was courageous enough to make that huge shift in ordaining

it came with plenty of opposition. We had videos made about was called all kinds of names that don't need to be mentioned ever again. But it was blessed as it was, it was also very painful. I want to say to your listeners that when you are a trailblazer, when you are the first to do something, you know, they talk about glass ceilings being broken.

with glass ceilings being broken, the glass can cut you. The shards of glass that you break sometimes can damage you as the trailblazer. And I didn't realize that going in, but looking back can say it was awesome and it was very difficult blaze that trail.

or to be one of the ladies that have blazed that trail, because I'm not the only one, but one of the ladies. Still, despite all of that, I'm grateful that we were able to get that done. And it started a conversation and a conversation that continues to happen in employing more women in ministry and not just employing them, but creating congregations that are prepared to receive a woman to pastor them.

because that's the next step. It's one thing to just lay hands and say, okay, we acknowledge your call, but it takes another level now of preparation and being led of the spirit to have a congregation that is willing to accept you and established congregation that has been for years, pastored by a man for you now to come in as a woman and pastor them. It's not impossible, but it does

strategy, it takes the Holy Spirit, it takes a lot. And so I think the next step. But overall, being raised in this faith has afforded me opportunities like that, to be a trailblazer, start conversations, to ruffle feathers. And for that, I'm forever grateful.

Alexis (03:12)
Welcome to the Sacred Slope, friends. I'm Alexis Rice. And in season two, we are gonna continue to talk with pastors, priests, reverends from around the world. We'll also talk with influencers, politicians, artists, actors, musicians, and everyday people.

to lift up healthy alternative versions that typically go without a microphone in today's current media.

the slippery slope was something that I heard a lot about growing up. don't go down that slippery slope. It's gonna lead you to all sorts of terrible things like liberalism, progressivism, atheism. You might even think gay people are okay. You might even think that it's okay not to be a Bible believing Christian, whatever that meant. On and on and on.

guess what? This journey I have found, and many other people have found, is a sacred journey. It's actually a sacred thing that is really important to do. And I'm not just talking about deconstruction, which is something that usually happens when you were raised in a very narrow fundamentalist way of Christianity. And let's just...

remember that there's over 45,000 denominations within Christianity. So I'm not just talking about one way, but if you were raised in a certain way of Christianity that said, this is the only way to believe in Christianity, you really can't deviate outside of that. You shouldn't even be learning about it. That's something you're probably gonna need to deconstruct from and go around and look at all of the different ways that people actually

practice this faith, because what I'm going to tell you is that there is no one political party, no one person, no one group of people, no one country who holds the corner on what it means to be a Christian. There are over two billion Christians on the planet, and we practice in over 45,000 denominations. this conversation today, really matters right now, I'm going to talk with Pastor Kim. Pastor Kim is a female pastor.

from the Seventh-day Adventist tradition. we're living in a moment right now when Christianity is being used really loudly to justify hierarchy, control, and narrow ideas about who gets to lead, who gets believed, and who gets silenced. And at the same time, millions of people are quietly asking a different question. Is that really the whole story? Pastor Kimberly Bulgin

She's a pastor, a global leader, and the author of The Sisters Stay, Dropping Gems. This is a book that reintroduces the women of the Bible, not as cautionary as these complex, courageous, and spiritually authoritative voices that we were never meant to ignore. this episode, you'll hear what it actually costs to challenge power from the inside, why breaking glass ceilings often can wound the people who break them,

and how Jesus's treatment of women disrupts the modern purity model in certain cultures. It disrupts hierarchy and control. We talk about biblical women who've been flattened into stereotypes, scripture you thought you understood but probably never heard preached this way, and why reclaiming these stories doesn't weaken faith. It deepens it, it humanizes it, and it makes it far more honest.

expect assumptions to maybe shift a little bit. Maybe expect your theology to stretch a little bit. And maybe you can expect some long-held narratives to quietly start to fall apart. The Sisters Stay Dropping Gems, is out now, and listeners of The Sacred Slope can use the promo code sacredpod. Details are in the show notes. in.

Alexis Rice (07:45)
Welcome back Today, I'm honored to have Pastor

musician, resilience expert, global leader, and author of the powerful new book, The Sister Stay Dropping Gems, What Women in the Bible Teach Us About Life, Love, and Relationships. Pastor Kim is an ordained minister in the Seventh-Day Adventist Church.

She holds a bachelor's degree in music education from Andrews University and a master of arts degree in music and theology from the Trinity Lutheran Seminary. In 2025, she stepped away from pastoral ministry and is now self-employed in full-time ministry as the speaker and founder of House of Women. She has spent over 15 women through faith, freedom, and healing, whether through preaching, teaching, music, or global ministry.

across North America, the Caribbean, Africa, and work invites women not to the margins of scripture, but to the center, reclaiming their seats at God's table, not as silent followers, but as radiant, fearless leaders. So Pastor Kim, welcome to The Sacred Slope.

Kimberly Bulgin (08:53)
Thank you so much for having me. And I love that introduction. Thank you. I feel so encouraged.

Alexis Rice (08:59)
Well, we're encouraged by you, so I can't wait to talk about this book. I'd love to ask you what inspired you to write this book and why now? What's been stirring in you personally, pastorally, or globally that's made this book feel urgent?

Kimberly Bulgin (09:13)
the way my brain works, I have a bit of a creative, outrageous mind. So what I imagined was a bunch of women in the Bible coming over for a slumber party and sharing their advice, their perspective on life, love and relationships. So that's, that's the, the idea in a nutshell. What would happen if Hagar, Sarah,

Hannah, Delilah even, all these larger than life women figures in the Bible. What would happen if they came together and gave us their perspective on relationships, on love, sexuality, all these things? it's been an awesome thing to write. one of the reasons why it was so pressing for me in this think was my house of women is growing.

And I wanted to have a resource that I could from on a consistent basis that has studies about women that I've talked about in the past and that I could refer women to and say, hey, we've talked about Hagar. Here's a chapter on her. You can get more information about her from my book. So that was part of the reason, just from a practical space, almost having a textbook for the House of Women. But then beyond that, I'm really a

passionate, dare I say frustrated about how women have been misunderstood, specifically biblical women, misunderstood, misaligned in sermons and pulpits in church spaces. And I just felt like there needs to be a resource that provides a response to that. I also personally felt like there isn't a book like this out here. ⁓

So I'm gonna go ahead and just write it and that was part of my ⁓ Passion as well like just writing something that I hadn't found And tapping into my creativity to create something that's not out there yet and now is so yeah That's a little bit about why this book exists and why I felt so Passionate about getting it out into the world as soon as possible

Alexis Rice (11:20)
you opened the book with why you need this book and why you need it now. before we read from it, I would love to ask you, who is this book for and who do you hope feel seen and strengthened and challenged by it?

Kimberly Bulgin (11:35)
That's a great question. I wrote it for women like me. So a woman like me is a woman that has been raised in sacred spaces, communities of faith. They have a faith background. They've studied the Bible. They've read the Bible. They're familiar with church lingo. And at the same time, they feel like something is missing. They feel like they need something more. They feel like they need

a resource that will help them kind of process some questions they may be having, some doubts. They want to be seen as a full woman and not just a holy want to bring their femininity into sacred spaces. They want to bring their sexiness. They want to bring their girliness and haven't always felt like it's a safe thing to do because of how they were taught, because of purity culture, all the things. And so I wanted to create a book.

for that type of woman that is looking for resources, looking for spaces that sees them, all of their womanness, and doesn't minimize any of it, and says all of it is welcome in the presence of God. And here are some women in the Bible that are going to affirm that, that are going to speak to that, that yearning that you may be having. I think it's also helpful for women.

that study the Bible. I think it's a great resource for women who have Bible studies and women's groups and are looking for a book that will leave the women in their group surprised, shocked, really thinking through some stuff. If they're looking for some type of book that's really gonna stir up some good conversation.

I wrote this book for them as well because, you know, growing up, I was raised on a lot of different women's devotionals that were good, but centered patriarchy, centered white male centered, you know, men's perspectives, even as a woman's book. So I really wanted to have a book, have a resource out there that kind of puts that to the side and says, here's another perspective.

that could be used in women's groups or for your own personal devotional as well.

Alexis Rice (13:52)
Yes, I love that. think it's so important especially those of us who have been raised in church culture our whole lives, to go back and look at a lot of these stories from a perspective that we haven't before, what can we learn when we center the woman in this story versus centering the man, which is basically always centered in the Bible pretty much most all the stories.

Kimberly Bulgin (14:13)
Thank you.

Alexis Rice (14:16)
I'd love to hear a little bit before we hop into the book about your childhood. Can you tell us about what your childhood faith looked like what kind of denomination you were raised also how that came eventual ordination what denomination Seventh Day Adventist means.

Kimberly Bulgin (14:30)
OK.

Alexis Rice (14:32)
You

Kimberly Bulgin (14:32)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was born and raised in the Seventh-day Adventist tradition. My dad was a pastor for pretty much all of his life in the Adventist church. I have uncles and a brother and a cousin that are ordained ministers in the So I am deep in this thing. It's a family

it's what I know and all the and I'm grateful. Let me start by saying, like, I don't want anybody to think that I'm anti Adventist or anything like that. Like I am so grateful for my foundation. I am grateful for what it taught me. I'm grateful for all the memories and the teachings and the community.

the community, the community especially, that has come as a result of being raised in Seventh-day Adventist I think also when you are raised in something, you see a lot of things too. You see a lot of great things and you see some things that are disheartening and are discouraging and are just plain, just plain sucks really.

Like it shouldn't be happening at all.

One of the things that my denomination still wrestles with is ordaining women. that's still something that we struggle with till this day. We are making strides, thanks be to God, where women are being ordained, but as a large body, there's still a lot of resistance.

So I'm grateful that the particular union that I was a part of elected to ordain me as their first woman to be ordained within that specific region. It was a big deal. Yay. God thanks for that. And it was a blessed time. was.

Alexis Rice (16:25)
Yes, praise God. Yes, amazing.

Also, what took them

so long?

Kimberly Bulgin (16:34)
Right. ⁓ the politics and the policies and just the deeply entrenched takes a lot to overcome those things, but I'm really grateful to the administration at that time that was courageous enough to make that huge shift in ordaining

it came with plenty of opposition. We had videos made about was called all kinds of names that don't need to be mentioned ever again. But it was blessed as it was, it was also very painful. I want to say to your listeners that when you are a trailblazer, when you are the first to do something, you know, they talk about glass ceilings being broken.

with glass ceilings being broken, the glass can cut you. The shards of glass that you break sometimes can damage you as the trailblazer. And I didn't realize that going in, but looking back can say from it was awesome and it was also very difficult blaze that trail.

or to be one of the ladies that have blazed that trail, because I'm not the only one, but one of the ladies. Still, despite all of that, I'm grateful that we were able to get that done. And it started a conversation and a conversation that continues to happen in employing more women in ministry and not just employing them, but creating congregations that are prepared to receive a woman to pastor them.

because that's the next step. It's one thing to just lay hands and say, okay, we acknowledge your call, but it takes another level now of preparation and being led of the spirit to have a congregation that is willing to accept you and established congregation that has been for years, pastored by a man for you now to come in as a woman and pastor them. It's not impossible, but it does take.

strategy, it takes the Holy Spirit, it takes a lot. And so that's the, I think the next step. But overall, being raised in this faith has afforded me opportunities like that, to be a trailblazer, start conversations, to ruffle feathers. And for that, I'm forever grateful.

Alexis Rice (19:05)
That's awesome. I love it. And we need more women like you out there because ever since the beginning, Jesus, Paul, they were all fine with having women be leaders. it's incredibly important that when women hear the calling of the Holy Spirit, that others do not get in the way of that vocation.

Seventh Day Adventist denomination kind of known for? So if someone would go into a church of the denomination, what might they expect and what might be a little bit different than something that they might have experienced, let's say in a different denomination?

Kimberly Bulgin (19:42)
Yeah, that's a great question. Well, our name, Seventh-day represents what we are passionate about, what we believe God has placed this denomination in the earth for such a time as this, meaning that we are believers of Sabbath, the Seventh-day Sabbath. So the first thing would be that if you were to walk into an Adventist congregation,

99.9 % of the time our services are going to be on Saturdays and not Sundays We may have like a Sunday night service or a Friday night service Obviously, we have like a Wednesday night prayer meeting like most churches do but in terms of that worship service it's going to be Saturday at 11 instead of the typical Sunday at

we're known for that. We're known for Sabbath keeping, just like other, you know, Seventh-day Church of God, Messianic Jews, obviously, and other Sabbath keeping denominations. We're not the only one. Seventh-day Baptists, there's quite a few out there that keep Sabbath as well. Then we call ourselves Adventists, which is similar to the word Advent.

Right? And when you hear the word Advent, especially in around Christmas time, we're talking about the first time Jesus came to the earth. we celebrate Christmas as well, to an extent, but we most so are excited about the second Advent, the second coming of Jesus Christ, which is where we get a lot of our identity.

We are enthusiastic about the second coming of Jesus Christ. And everything we do, everything we do is about making sure that we are letting the world know, letting our friends and family know that, Jesus is coming soon. Now, has it been done in some weird legalistic, over the top ways? Absolutely.

Have we maybe been A bit of a zealot maybe, maybe too excited, too enthusiastic about getting the word out? Yeah, I think at our core though, we just want Jesus to come back and we're really excited about it. think over the years now, I think we've learned from our mistakes when it comes to evangelism

the good news of Jesus, like other denominations, like other evangelical denominations. Again, I'm sure there's a lot of similar stories that a lot of your listeners could probably relate to, you know, where you were told that you had to go out there and tell somebody about Jesus, right? So yeah, it's a similar thing. Ours is more rooted in the fact that we really believe Jesus is coming soon, there are signs all over that point to this.

Alexis Rice (22:24)
yes. yes.

Mm-hmm.

Kimberly Bulgin (22:36)
what keeps us going. That's why we passionate about keeping our bodies healthy. So another thing that we're known for is health. We have a lot of hospitals. We have a lot of retreat centers. When I was dealing with my was diagnosed with congestive heart failure. I'm doing OK now. One of the reasons why I'm doing OK is I shift myself to one of our

Alexis Rice (22:45)
Hmm.

Hmm. I'm sorry.

Kimberly Bulgin (23:00)
Yeah, I'm okay now. I shipped myself to one of health centers we do a really good job. Like if you're really sick, Adventists are probably one of the best people you want to talk to because we'll be able to get you better. We know about all that health stuff. we're passionate about that because we believe that healthier you are, the more likely you are to have the energy and the drive to

talk about Jesus and to spread the good news. I think it's an important part of what we do. ⁓ So you'll probably, like if you go to Adventist Church and they invite you over for lunch, you may enjoy a vegetarian meal, maybe a vegan one. Not everybody, but still there's quite a few of us that still are flex. I call myself like a flex vegetarian, pescatarian. I could go either way.

So most Adventists are gonna be the same way meals are somewhat more healthier. So yeah, I think those are the top three things. We keep Sabbath, we believe Jesus is coming soon. We love to talk about health and how it applies to your overall wellness and your overall spiritual life. And we love Jesus, ultimately. Do we have issues? Absolutely. have...

problems like in our denomination, a thousand times yes. But at our core, we love the Lord. We want him to come back and take us all home. And we believe that as many people as possible need to experience this type of Jesus that not only cares about your soul, but cares about a human being, like your mind, body, and soul, wants you to be taken care of while you're here on earth and not just about

you know, getting to heaven and having like this heavenly body, but let's also take care of you while you're here on earth. That's why we're passionate about community service. have a lot of, it's called Adventist Disaster and Relief Agency. We have a lot of those. It's just like our Red Cross as well. So yeah, that's in a nutshell what we're about.

Alexis Rice (25:09)
Thank you so much for giving us a peek into the denomination for those of us who have heard some, but it's always nice to talk to somebody from the source, from the well, To kind of shatter some stereotypes, but then also to learn. think it's just so important and beautiful to hear that, know, man, in this one global, diverse, inclusive body of Christ, there are so many ways

so many styles, that are going to fit different people. It's just so cool, isn't it?

Kimberly Bulgin (25:40)
Yeah,

I think diversity is the way forward for sure. I think we need more spaces for people to say, this is what works, this is what's resonating with me in this season and allowing people the freedom to align with belief systems that support who they are currently.

Alexis Rice (25:42)
All right.

Absolutely. on that note, I'd love to read something in the beginning of your book. And it says, we've made strides, yes, but in countless communities, countries, and cultures, women's voices are stifled. They're worth measured by their domestic roles of their ability to bear children. In some places, property rights, education, and even safety remain privileges rather than rights for women.

the same resilient spirit that empowered our sisters then remains necessary now. Love that. how do you see these biblical women speaking into today's global realities, both inside and outside the church?

Kimberly Bulgin (26:40)
love that question. How I want to answer it is you just how my brain imagine that there are still, for example, there are like modern day Rahabs that are still amongst us, right? There are modern day Hagar's.

that are still amongst us that need to be seen, that need to be heard, that need to be acknowledged, that need to know that it's okay to bring their humanity into sacred spaces. Like they don't need to be shunned and marginalized and put on the back burner. For example, Rahab, I feel like...

She's a great example of a woman that using her body in a way to advance herself, to take care of herself and her family. We still see that happening today. We still see that happening. And I think it's necessary for the church to see women like that, not to judge them.

Not even necessarily to bring them in to the fold right away, but to heal, to liberate, to acknowledge them, to provide healthcare for them, to make sure they're good, to make sure they're taken care of. They don't need another voice.

chastising, judging, minimizing their decision and their autonomy to use their body that way. What they need are more women and men for that matter that sees their whole selves not a problem to be solved. these rehabs of today are not problems to be solved. They're human beings that need to be loved and cared for and appreciated and

in community with even. And I know that's a tall order for a lot of churchy people to be in community with women like Rahab. But as we can see, like Rahab ends up in the genealogy of Jesus, right? Like she ends up being a pretty big deal in scripture, which I think just as a reminder that it's okay to prioritize the stories of women that may be different than us.

I feel like the book helps us first of all, struggle is not over the struggle to allow women to be seen and heard. we've made strides, but we still have such a far way to go because there are still like these biblical women that still exist in this modern day society. And we as

women of faith, I think, need to up our game and up our commitment to helping all women, not just women that fit into our boxes, that fit into our perceived safety, and give ourselves permission to extend our borders to the marginalized women, to the misunderstood women. Because I think what we tend to forget is that

We are misunderstood too in church. We are marginalized too as well in church. We have our own struggles. So why extend that same struggle to women on the outside? If anything, we should be more understanding because we know what it's like.

Alexis Rice (30:11)
Yes, that's right. And speaking about borders, as I mentioned at the top, you've spent time ministering not just in the US, right? You've been in Africa, you've been in the Caribbean. having met so many women all over the world, how has that encountering of God through women in different cultures expanded or reshaped your understanding of God?

Kimberly Bulgin (30:37)
That's a beautiful question. I think it has confirmed for me that is truly our Emmanuel, God with us. the Bible talks about in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

And so when I have had opportunities to travel and see women in Kenya, in the UK, in the Bahamas, Jamaica, wherever, it's a reminder that God is not like only for a certain type of woman, but that God is for all women of all shapes, sizes, backgrounds.

all of it exists God lives in all of us as women and we don't get to police how the spirit shows up in women from all over the world I think it's also reminder of how necessary it is to make sure that we're not gatekeeping That we're not holding back

the goodness of God just because a woman doesn't fit particular mold of what a church girl needs to look like. That's one thing. I think the other thing also is that the Bible also talks about God being present for the brokenhearted. And again, much progress we have made with the women's rights and

overcoming sexism and misogyny and patriarchy, there's still so much brokenness, so much pain that our sisters are experiencing in other parts of the world. That reminds me that I'm so grateful that we serve a God that is near to us when we're brokenhearted. And it also emboldens me to do all that I can in my part of the world.

to make sure that we are intentionally helping ladies that are hurting, that are broken, that are experiencing abuse still, that are in relationships that they can't get out of because of economics, because of culture, because of tradition. Women that are called to ministry still are not welcome in churches because they're a woman, but they still feel this call.

was my most recent experience. I was able to go to a college and talk to the women theology majors there. And all of them talked about their struggles, not only with accepting their call, but being in community with people that accept their call and how difficult it has been, even in going to school for theology, to find churches that are willing

to embrace them fully. And yet still, they're going to school to study in a seminary knowing that the road for them may be rough of where they are. That was, I mean, I cried, like just real tears that's another level of faith. It's one thing go to seminary in America. have options to a degree.

But to be in seminary and really just not know, you know, miraculous. So it was a reminder to me that God still speaks to women. God is still calling women. And I think we have a responsibility as women to be in community with others as much as possible, with other women as much as possible, and create spaces and platforms for women that are on fire for God to be able to share their ministry and to share

their testimony and to share what God has given them and not gatekeep and not keep their God likeness, you know, over there. So that to me in a nutshell is how I see God showing up all over the world and what it means for me as a woman of God, as a woman advocate, as a woman that is passionate about setting women free. It just was a deeper reminder that this work is needed.

We need to free more women to be able to experience God more fully, regardless of their past or their background.

Alexis Rice (34:48)
Yes. We need that so bad right now, especially, you know, a lot of online spaces, social media spaces, there is this entrenchment, this backlash against what it means to be a Christian woman, that it's really the opposite of all the things that you're saying. It's that like, no, you're supposed to be subservient under the man. And what worries me is that there are young Christian impressionable girls who are hearing.

these messages by other men saying, this is the way that you are supposed to follow the spirit. And I just like to hear a little bit from you, Pastor Kim. What would you say to those young girls who are getting that message now online?

that's the Christian way.

Kimberly Bulgin (35:32)
Yeah, there is a lot of talk about that in the internets for sure. And as somebody who was raised in a similar, upbringing, I think what freed me was recognizing that God sees me, first of all, as an individual.

God sees me as whole, God sees me as necessary, God sees me as a woman. And then from there, valuing how God sees me was very helpful in unlearning a lot of the oppressive teachings. That sounds great, by the way.

A lot of what's taught, I think why it's so readily swallowed is because it actually sounds Serve the man and the man will take care of you. He'll provide, he'll protect, he'll pursue all those things. Who doesn't wanna be provided for? Who doesn't wanna be protected and pursued? So I'm not necessarily against having a man in your life.

What I do think though, what God is calling us to as women is partnership and not this hierarchal like being lorded and lorded over. I think that's the distinction. We are all for doing life in partnership with somebody. I think I don't want to be by myself for the rest of my life. I do want to have a partner. I do want to be married to somebody, but

That marriage, I don't know if you all remember umbrella image where it's like God, husband, I can't believe it's still being shopped around as the truth. as much as it looks good and sounds good, I believe that the Bible shows us another way. And if there are women that are still beholden to that way of believing,

Alexis Rice (37:20)
yeah, it

Kimberly Bulgin (37:35)
You know, that is your right. I don't ever want to be a woman that tells them that you can't, you know, do it your way. I think we have the agency to make choices, but I do invite women to think differently or to think more openly about what it means to be in partnership and in connection with a man in a way that frees you that

liberates the real you and does not control, minimize or disparage who God has called you to be. I think the Bible wants women to be liberated. read about Jesus and how he treats women, a lot of that icky male centered stuff that we are fed crumbles when you take time to study how Jesus treated women. That alone

causes all of those submission men must control women or men must be over the women. A lot of that goes away when you study the life and teachings of Jesus. So that's what I would encourage women to do. Women that have been fed that for their whole life. If you just sit and just notice and deeply observe how Jesus treated the women with the issue of blood, how Jesus treated the women caught in adultery, how Jesus treated Mary, Martha.

Mary Magdalene, all those different ways, you will begin to see that a lot of what we've been taught as it relates to how we are to be with men is just not, it's just not true.

Alexis Rice (39:16)
That's

Kimberly Bulgin (39:15)
I to say it,

Alexis Rice (39:16)
speaking of that, so you just mentioned talking about how Jesus treats women, And it's so true, especially when you look at it through the lens of the context of the ancient time, it's really different than now. for example, when he was eating with the people that he was eating with.

with prostitutes. That was more intense of a message to others than it even would be right now,

I was wondering if you could read a little bit about the woman at the well. page 469

Kimberly Bulgin (39:48)
Okay, the woman at the well has been judged for centuries. Some paint her as a scarlet woman, drawing water at noon to avoid the disapproving stares from the village gossip. Others turn her into a caricature of female empowerment, conveniently ignoring the social stigma she likely faced. But we can't fall for these extremes. Let's meet her in the complexity of her story.

This encounter at the well overflows with lessons about faith, sex, and relationships. It's a story about a woman on a quest for something more profound, a woman whom Jesus meets not with judgment, but with an invitation to a love that satisfies in a way nothing else can.

Yes, Lord.

So.

one of the things I love to talk about because the woman at the well is often disparaged as, you know, she had five men. You know, she has a body count, And we've had to sit through some horrifying sermons that made her out to be like this wild, loose

we look at how first of all, how Jesus interacts with this woman, right? He talks to her openly. He talks to her publicly. not a secret. It's not something that he's ashamed there's nothing in her past that keeps Jesus from even talking to she slept with one person or 100. Furthermore,

to divorce and marriage in Bible times, it was the men that were doing the divorcing, not the woman. So is a conversation to be had or an angle at least that could even suggest that it was the men that had issues, not her.

it may not have been her issue, it could have been a man issue, because it was men that leaving her for whatever reason. But even with all of that, bottom line is, her a chance to rewrite her story. And it shatters the lie that our worth is defined by how many people we've slept with.

whether we are virgin or not, because what ends up happening is she doesn't have to like pray some long drawn out prayer to, you know, get rid of the soul ties of these five guys. She does not have to go into some major like praying and fasting, some major ritual before she's able to go into the city.

and tell everybody to come see a man that told me all I ever knew, she didn't have to do any of that. The fact that she had an encounter with Jesus was more than enough to qualify her to talk about Jesus and all that he had done for her. And so I think the woman at the well is a great example where Jesus, first of all, did not even need her to be married to the guy that she was with. See what I'm saying?

This whole idea of needing a man in order to do X, Y, Z, it just crumbles when you look at how Jesus treats women, he doesn't say, you need to go and reconcile with your spouse first before you can go and turn the world upside down for me. No, he meets her where she is and empowers her to go and tell everybody about the goodness of God. And so I hope that gives women permission to stop diminishing their value.

because of their past, to stop diminishing your value because of who you're with or who you're not with. You're worthy simply because you exist, period. And Jesus sees you that way as well. And you want to be with a man who sees you that way, who does not value you based on who you've been with or who you've not been with. to be with a man that's only gonna value you.

because of what you've done or what you have not done. You wanna be with somebody who just loves you for you and wants to partner with you simply because you're alive and you're amazing and you're hot and you're sexy and just wants to spend the rest of your life. Like that's what it should be. Nothing more. It doesn't have to be about what do you bring to the table. Are you kidding me? Jesus didn't ask any of those things. He didn't ask about like, he didn't ask what do you bring to the table.

in order to talk about me. He did not care. He just wanted to have an encounter and experience with her. That's all that it needs to be. those that struggle with value and worth, Jesus includes her past when he calls her. He knows, like he includes her sexual history.

He factors that in.

to who she is going to be, like who she's called to be. He doesn't negate that, he factors it in. So to any lady out there that may feel like, I don't know if I'm good enough, I don't know if I'm worthy enough, I don't know if I'm good enough to be married, I don't know if I'm good enough to serve, I don't know if I'm good enough to be a minister, I don't know if I'm good enough to do all the things, Jesus already knows who you are. Like he already has factored all of that in. You don't have to concern yourself with that. Just be who God has called you to be. And I feel like the more you just spend time,

For me, that changed my I hope I'm giving women permission to do the same thing. Get into the gospels, get into the life of Jesus and just like hyper fixate on what Jesus is doing, what he's not doing, what he's saying, what he's not saying, who he's talking to, who he's not talking to. Like just let that saturate your spirit and begin to reorient.

how you view yourself, how you view other women, how you view men even, and I believe that alone is gonna set you free.

Alexis Rice (45:55)
I got a sermon today. I feel it in my heart and my bones. Thank just I feel it. I'm so encouraged and I'm so excited for people to continue reading more of these stories through your book. And as we close today, Pastor Kim, there are people listening or watching right now who haven't been prayed over in a long time.

And I feel like in the context of what you're talking about, especially women who have been hurt by the patriarchy, who equated that with God, and that's how God feels about them. I'd love to ask you to pray over them.

Kimberly Bulgin (46:34)
Absolutely. It would be an honor to pray for the ladies and whoever listening. So let's pray. Father, we just want to say that we honor you. We want to say that we thank you, Lord, for being a God that liberates. Your word says that whom the Son has set free is free indeed. Not, you know, half free, not.

Kind of free but whom the Son sets free is free indeed God. I just want to thank you right now that when you free us No religion, no patriarchy no past Can cage us or enslave us and I'm praying Lord for the listeners of this podcast

today, Lord, will they, I pray Lord that you will help them to recognize this truth and live into that reality. That once you free us, we are free indeed. And I'm praying, God, that you will help us not to go back into spaces and places and mindsets that cage us, that enslave us. I pray, God, that you will help us to live out this freedom that you have so graciously.

upon us. Help us, God, to be women that are liberated, women that are free and loved, not just free spiritually, but in their bodies as well, Lord. You have come to set us free, not just spiritually, but holistically as well. And so I'm praying, God, for every woman that's listening right now, God, for any woman that has ever felt broken, felt used, felt abandoned, felt less than. I just pray, God, that you will remind them through your word and even through my book,

that they can walk in liberty, that they can walk in freedom because that's what you want for us, I thank you for this healing, eye-opening conversation. And I pray, Lord, that something that is shared today will help us draw closer to you, draw closer to ourselves, and draw closer to an awareness of all that you have called us to be. We want to say, Lord, that we love you, and we thank you for all these things. In Jesus' name, amen.

Alexis Rice (48:33)
Amen. Pastor Kimberly Bulgen, author of The Sisters Stay Dropping Gems, available everywhere now. Thank you so much for the soul-filling conversation.

Kimberly Bulgin (48:45)
Absolutely. Thank you so much for me. been a joy.

Alexis Rice (48:48)
Thank you for joining us today on The Sacred Slope. If you'd like to nominate a pastor, priest, or member anywhere in the world, send me an email at Alexis @ thesacredslope.com. Music was by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin, and Sean Spence. May the fruit of the spirit guide you this week. I'm Alexis Rice. Go in peace, friends.