35. Ike Ndolo (Catholic, Singer-Songwriter) - God in the Rubble, Honest Hymns & Freedom Songs

🎙️  35. Ike Ndolo (Catholic, Singer-Songwriter) - God in the Rubble, Honest Hymns & Freedom Songs

Alexis Rice welcomes Ike Ndolo @ikendolo, a Nigerian-American Catholic worship leader and singer-songwriter whose voice refuses silence in the face of suffering. This episode is a powerful, honest conversation about faith with legs—faith that tells the truth, stands with the oppressed, and sings even when the world is on fire. Ike reflects on global Christianity, Catholic tradition, liberation theology, and the cost of speaking out—especially in this season.

We talk about God in the Rubble—a lament, protest, and prayer written in response to Gaza—and how worship can hold grief, rage, and hope at the same time. Ike also shares the stories behind Won’t He Do It, Sons and Daughters, City of God, and the heart of his forthcoming work Honest Hymns & Freedom Songs. Along the way, we explore music as resistance, salvation history as a living drama, and why collective liberation matters.

💡 Key Takeaways

• Why scripture read in full tells a story of liberation, not domination
• How Catholic liturgy resists cherry-picked theology
• Music as protest, prayer, and communal healing

👤 About Our Guest
Ike Ndolo has spent his entire adult life in ministry, leading worship across continents while writing songs rooted in justice, dignity, and radical welcome. His sound blends Americana, folk, and rock, influenced by Bob Marley, Ben Harper, Bob Dylan, and Marvin Gaye. His work invites listeners into faith that is honest, embodied, and alive.

🎶 Songs & Music Featured

• God in the Rubble — Ike Ndolo
• Won’t He Do It — Ike Ndolo
• Sons and Daughters — Ike Ndolo (co-written with Matt Maher @mattmahermusic) Featuring Emoni Wilkens @emoniwilkins
• City of God — Ike Ndolo
• Honest Hymns & Freedom Songs — upcoming record

🎙 Mentions & Influences

• James Talarico @jamestalarico on God’s cry for justice
• Inspirational singer-songwriters: Sara Groves @grovesroad, Derek Webb @derekwebb, Semler @gracebaldridge, Jon Guerra @iamjonguerra
  
  

🔗 Follow & Support Ike

Transcript

Ike Ndolo (00:00)
I look at the a thematic thing, because you can take any little line and use it to justify the awful things that you believe or think, right? Like, so slave owners use the Bible to justify then, but enslaved people would read that same Bible and they see a justification for their liberation, right?

Alexis Rice (00:12)
Yes, they did.

Ike Ndolo (00:20)
And so my thing is, okay, take a step back. what is this thing trying to say to us as a whole in its totality? Stop going to this verse or this, what's the whole thing about salvation history? It's about salvation. It's about scripture talks constantly about freeing the captives, loving your enemy. And especially when we get into the New Testament with Jesus,

there's this whole trend. I'm seeing this like very disturbing thing where I'm seeing these like white evangelical pastors going on their podcasts talking about the justification for slavery. like, God is okay with slavery. Truly I'm seeing these things. I'm like, this is like dystopian, man. so many quiet parts are not quiet anymore.

You can take scripture and do that. I'm like, there was slavery in the Bible. And for myself, I think what's helped me a lot, and also being Catholic, growing up Catholic, there never was how do I describe it? Well, one, Catholics don't read the Bible. Let's just be.

Alexis Rice (01:16)
That is not a helpful thing to say for evangelicals because evangelicals will be like, that's why we're right and that's why Catholics are not. Like just throwing that out there like, no.

Ike Ndolo (01:23)
Exactly But I'm gonna I'm gonna say it I'm gonna say it cuz this and this one was that

because every Week and if you go every day you read you listen to the Bible in its entirety, the Bible is read not we don't pick and choose Every single Sunday You go to church every single Sunday

for, don't know, can't remember how it is, we have a cycle, right? You're gonna hear the Bible in its entirety. So there are Sundays where this is the reading. It's not like, oh, this is our series on whatever cherry that we really like. No, no, no, no, Now we're gonna have to read about this thing where it seems talking about socialism. And so what my favorite thing is to watch priests say, well, know, God's not saying we have to be socialists. I'm like, dude.

looks like it is, and so some priests will really rise to the occasion and say, no, we're going to preach about this hard thing. it's not about interpretation because I think that's a whole other thing. It's very individualistic. Like, well, I'm reading the Bible. I'm going to determine it for myself. It's fine. You can, you know, you can. But I think also like as a historical document, right, which Bible? Tons and tons of different Bibles, which one?

Which one is your one? Because my Bible has this book, yours doesn't have. So which one is it?

Alexis Rice (02:44)
Yep.

Your Bibles always have the Apocrypha right? Yeah. Yeah.

Ike Ndolo (02:48)
Yeah, exactly. Always. And

lot of process didn't grow. don't have that. So like the thing is exactly.

Alexis Rice (02:52)
No. People still don't know what that is in evangelical spaces in general, just that it's

the Apocrypha and it's untrue and therefore Catholics don't have the faith. I'm just throwing it out there so that you know. And it's ridiculous. It's so it's it's an can you mention that real quick? what is the Bible in its full with the Apocrypha like mean?

Ike Ndolo (03:04)
no no, ⁓ I know, I know.

To me, it's a drama. a being told. It really truly is. It is salvation history. We talk about it being the Word of God. We also, as Catholics, call it the Word of God. Which, by the way, denominations, it was the church who put

these books together and said, hey, these are the books and these are the books and these are the books, these are the books, right? And there's a whole bunch of other books that churches a bunch of bishops, Catholic bishops, didn't call them Catholics, were just because it was just the church said, we're not using these, these are weird, when we call it the inspired word of what it definitely means. It's the inspired word of God.

Alexis Rice (03:51)
the sacred slope, friends. I'm Alexis Rice. And today I wanna thank you so much for being with us for our very last episode of season one. There have been around 35 episode, think, yeah, I think this is episode 35. just really wanna thank you all for being on this journey on the sacred slope so far. It's been about seven months. We've now been in over 43 countries,

nearing 900 cities. We have done some amazing things together. reverends, priests, artists, musicians, and ordinary people all over the world. We've gotten to talk to people about how they practice their faith in healthy ways, lifting up people who are generally more progressive, who are also from all kinds of denominations.

and who practice their faith in radically healthy ways that are often overlooked by today's mainstream media. I thought about creating this because I felt very frustrated that there was a certain version of Christianity being lifted up in the last decade and especially in the last year in our government that decided that it really was the Christian way to act, believe,

And it's not. It's one version of Christianity that is honestly taking over in such a quick and radical fashion. And honestly, a lot of us do not believe the way that people who have been elevated on the extremist right wing version of Christianity in the United States today. And so I wanted to create this to

lift up people from all over the world and show you that there are healthier versions. right-wing media, especially in the United States, typically elevates only one type of Christian voice right now. And left-wing media and mainstream media have typically been pretty complicit in allowing that voice to thrive because they haven't really allowed a lot of space for people to talk about their faith. And not just Christian faith, their faith in general. In fact,

around nine out of 10 people on the planet practice some sort of religious connection or practice some sort of spirituality with the divine. And to completely ignore that has really left a vacuum for people to allow the narrative to thrive that Christianity looks a certain way and it doesn't. And so I've been just so excited to be able to invite you along to hear all of these different ways

that people are practicing their faith in beautiful ways and trying to follow Christ. a lot of them are typically progressive. They're typically centered your neighbor as yourself, the way Jesus did. Jesus talked about visiting the sick, taking care of the poor, the naked, visiting those in prison, taking care of the foreigner, standing up to religious hypocrisy and authority.

and loving our neighbors completely as ourselves, no matter who they are or what they look like, and realizing that every single human being has inherent worth and value and that we have a responsibility to care for the least of these. Jesus talks about how if we do not give a cold cup of water to our brother who needs it or a sister who needs it, or if we do not take care of the least of these, we didn't take care of Jesus.

And so we will continue to go all around the world in season two, talking to people of all different denominations who are often more progressive In lots of countries, they're not even called progressive, they're just called normal. And so I'm trying to help you break out of this binary as well.

especially if you're in the United States, because the world is not a binary. Something I haven't talked a ton about so far, and I will in season two, is that I've been fortunate enough to have spent a lot of my life all over the world. Yes, I'm an American. Yes, I'm from California, but I have lived in Spain, in the Netherlands. I have learned English, Spanish, and Dutch.

I have also been to over 30 countries around the world so far. I love to travel and I have seen God in so many different places. I've been all over Europe. I've been to places in Southeast Asia, in East Asia, in Central and South America. is one thing that I would love to challenge you to do next year. When you're feeling disillusioned, disoriented be curious stay curious.

Find out about this incredible playground that God has given us called Earth. Americans are not the center of the world, even though a lot of times we act like it. I want you to challenge yourself to go out of the boundaries that you have been growing up with. That might have been religious upbringing, way that you were taught about Jesus, the way that you were taught about

your own country, the presuppositions that you might have about people of other skin colors, of other races, of other religions, of other countries. be curious, learn, decenter yourself. I think God has a lot to teach you. I'm just excited for all of us to have a little bit more humility next year

I just really think that if we stop thinking that we know all of the answers and how to move forward, I think that we're going to be able to see and hear the voice of God more clearly because I really believe God has a lot of work for us to do in order to help heal this planet. One of those people that is doing such an amazing job of this is today's guest, Ike Ndolo. Ike is a Nigerian American Catholic worship leader, songwriter, and minister.

who has spent his entire adult life serving the church what I admire most about Ike is the way that his faith has never been confined to the stage a sanctuary. ministry has always been rooted in truth-telling, in global Christianity, and in a deep commitment to human dignity, even when that commitment comes at a cost. Ike has been unrelenting in using his voice

his platform to speak about what's happening in Gaza. To name the brutal reality of innocent people being killed by the thousands. Children, parents, families. Parents holding their dying children, parents holding their dead children. This level of suffering is profoundly wrong and it must stop. Ike refuses to look away, he refuses silence. And out of that refusal,

came his song, God in the Rubble It's a lament, a protest, and a prayer that insists God is found in suffering of the oppressed.

deeply grateful to Ike for his faithfulness, his honesty, and his willingness to keep raising his voice.

his music is gonna be woven into this episode. thank you so much for being with us on season one.

Can't wait to see you in the new year.

Let's get started.

Alexis Rice (15:42)
Welcome back friends. Today on the sacred slope, I'm joined by a voice that has carried hope, honesty and liberation through every lyric. Ike Ndolo. Hi Ike.

Ike Ndolo (15:52)
Yep.

Hi, how are you?

Alexis Rice (15:55)
Good, how are you today? Ike is a singer, songwriter, worship leader, and storyteller the Catholic world, whose sound lives at the intersection of Americana, folk, and rock, where raw faith meets real life. Influenced by icons like Bob Marley, Ben Harper, Bob Dylan, Marvin Gaye,

Ike Ndolo (15:56)
I'm doing Thanks for having me.

Alexis Rice (16:16)
His music blends soulful grit and deep storytelling to wrestle with belief, doubt, and redemption. His songs have been streamed millions of times around the world, resonating with listeners who are searching for faith that's real, inclusive, and alive. Over the years, Ike has led worship on stages across continents, from global gatherings to small sacred rooms, carrying the same humility and heart wherever he goes.

upcoming record, Honest Hymns and Freedom Songs, feel like a spiritual memoir, a collection of anthems about faith, struggle, liberation, and radical welcome. a reminder that the gospel was always meant to set people free. And his newest single, Sons and Daughters, is

about the family of God that transcends borders, politics, and Recently, Ike's own journey took an unexpected turn when his church let him go, saying they didn't know they were hiring an activist. But what's come from that moment is boldness. Ike continues to teach music to adults and kids

So Ike welcome to the sacred slope.

Ike Ndolo (17:19)
Thanks. Thanks so much for having me.

Alexis Rice (17:20)
All right, so I'd love to start with a glimpse of your childhood faith and the values that shaped you. Can you tell us about what spirituality looked like in your home growing up and what early memories still shaped you and how you understand God today?

Ike Ndolo (17:35)
Yeah, so I grew up Catholic. My parents are from Nigeria and we were in church every single Sunday. Very, very important. I grew up in Missouri, very small town, Columbia, Missouri. It was a college town, so it wasn't super small, but it was small and very small, very white. growing up Catholic in a small white town, obviously the church that.

I do remember my mom she kind of lived in these kind of both worlds. Like if you're Catholic, there's not a whole lot of outward expression of your spirituality. But my mom was always very expressive because that's what she kind of grew up with and her kind of Catholic experience in Nigeria. So, you know, we would obviously go to church on Sundays, but every once in my mom would take us to some big tent revival with,

you know, gospel music and preachers praying over us. because she also kind of craved that expression so it was mostly Catholic in this kind of very reserved spaces, but, my mom wasn't very reserved in her faith. very passionate people we are Nigerians. So, so I think she, she, craved that. So yeah, it was.

Alexis Rice (18:39)
You

Ike Ndolo (18:43)
church every Sunday, but our faith was very much a center who are, who we were as a family, especially coming my mom.

Alexis Rice (18:54)
can you tell us a little bit more about the Catholic tradition? So excited to talk to you about that. What does your faith look like? What is important to you? do you feel like are the values? I know it's not a monolith by any means, talked before this started a little bit Francis meant a lot to you.

Ike Ndolo (19:07)
Yeah.

Alexis Rice (19:12)
can you just talk about what that looks like?

Ike Ndolo (19:15)
Catholic your whole life, had the privilege of a lot other faith experiences outside of the Catholic denomination, could kind of compare and But for a long time, was really mostly, and most of my experience obviously is in the Catholic world. And as I grew and...

my faith changed, I guess, in my own views on the world. And started to lean a little bit more the other way as far as what Christianity was looking the I really started to become disillusioned with faith in general, and Christianity, even Catholicism. And Pope Francis

It was kind of crazy. a little background. So as a worship leader musician, I traveled a not necessarily doing a lot of concerts. did do concerts, but I would play at these like big worship events, these big Catholic worship events, these conferences and me and my band were out one day and one of my band members who wasn't even Catholic was like, hey, Pope Benedict retired.

tired. That's not, it can't be real because never knew a pope to retire and he did. at the time I was teetering really truly. I hated, obviously I was really tired of Christians. You know, I was tired of, false piety. was tired the lack of,

justice and activism. so I just wasn't in the Catholic world, the pomp and circumstance, you know, of Catholicism, where, you know, you've got all these rules and, you know, like you get these bishops who are like, princes. this kind of hierarchy I was just very disillusioned about whole thing. So Francis was elected and he comes out and usually all the popes that put on this very ornate red gold,

stole and he didn't he just came out and kind of simple white cassock i think it's called i'm catholic but i'm not like the most catholic but i think that's the term you know yeah exactly it was just so simple and so humble and i remember watching and i'm like wow i feel how i felt so hopeful

Alexis Rice (21:00)
More than I know.

Ike Ndolo (21:11)
for the future of the church and, for myself as a Catholic who felt, I was really on the brink of, checking out, leaving, that world. that kind of first day really set the tone for his papacy. he did, you know, I think what I loved about him is he pissed off American Catholics so much. American Catholics, especially the super

churchy ones were just pissed all the time at Francis. Like, he's tearing the church apart. You know, he's like, you see, he said we should love gay people. You know, it's like, I've loved that. it kept me in because to me, that's the guy that was modeling Jesus more than anybody I've ever seen, And I know this is not just true in the Catholic world. I know it's also true in evangelical spaces, but

holiness is like, looks like you're in church every Sunday, Wednesdays, who knows? You're in church all the time. I know in the Catholic world, we have mass every single day. you pray the rosary, you're like doing all these things all the time in church. And that's what holiness looks like. just am like, I don't, that doesn't compute to me. I feel like our faith needs to have legs and action. And it's fine that you pray, you know,

all the time, fine, what else? What else are we doing to follow Jesus and to, live out the words that he said when he's talking about loving your neighbor and your enemy and feeding the poor, were missing that whole thing. And so piety has become this very inward thing I can say specifically in the Catholic world, it looks like, yeah, I go to mass every single day.

church all the time and I go there, whatever, all these things. and, but what are you doing outside of that to advance the kingdom of God, to show Jesus to others? and I just saw Francis making that his whole point, the whole point of his papacy, was to take Jesus outside of the church walls, to find the marginalized and the oppressed, to comfort those who

have maybe felt disenfranchised from main church circles. I know for myself, as someone who felt like I was not bought in because it just seemed disingenuous, Catholicism seemed.

disingenuous, Christianity seemed disingenuous. He was really truly a breath of fresh air for me and inspired me and kept me here, you know. And I also think that sometimes the reality is we're human beings. And I talked to, a friend of mine who's also Catholic songwriter and he was talking about, you know, like, yeah, sometimes I feel like I'm barely hanging on,

to faith in general sometimes, and a lot of that is the weariness of the church, like Little c Church, the people, the ways that even the church has brought harm to others, in the Catholic world, that's very much on display. We've had tons and tons of scandals and I've worked for churches since I 19. Yeah.

Alexis Rice (23:49)
Hmm.

Ike Ndolo (24:04)
I got hired as a youth minister, a youth pastor for when I was 19 years old, ministering to kids who were 17, you know, like, which is a huge mistake in my opinion, you know, like, but I was. and out of the six pastors I've worked three of them were removed from ministry. One of them was excommunicated, excommunicated, like,

Alexis Rice (24:14)
Hmm.

Ike Ndolo (24:29)
if you've like studied history, you know that word, it's like a medieval term, even for myself as a Catholic. The pastor that I worked for was excommunicated. He was removed from ministry for sexual allegations. He was told by the bishop that while the investigation was going on to not do any public ministry and he did not listen and he started a whole new church, which we don't do in the Catholic world. You don't do that. You don't start, there's no church planting.

That's not a thing that happens Catholic world. So he is under obedience to the bishop and the bishop said, do this, don't be public. And he did. And then he started a church and he was excommunicated because he was leading people away from things. I mean, it's such a crazy thing. So I'm only saying that because three pastors I worked for, so three out of six were removed officially for some sort of thing. the first one was an alcoholic and he was

verbally abusive to the school kids at the church. the other two, which I just mentioned, one was excommunicated and the other one also had sexual allegations. And then the other two, one of them just recently fired me. then the other one that I worked for was also awful and I quit before he could fire me.

That's when I talk about the weariness of it all, or when I say I'm barely hanging on, It's been exhausting. Even as someone who like is behind the scenes and sees how the sausage is made, which, if you want to keep your faith, sometimes I say, I don't know if you should work for the church behind the curtain is rough. so that has been my experience, but also just even the people in the pews.

the radicalization I've seen for a lot of people, which seem very anti-Gospel to me, been disheartening, I think, to say the least, been disheartening.

Alexis Rice (26:03)
Yeah,

to a lot of people, right? I mean, my theory is that the millions and millions of people who have walked out of church spaces in the last decade or so did not necessarily leave Jesus or leave God. They left these local church spaces because of similar things that you're talking about across all denominations, Catholic, Protestant, and the majority of those people who in

Ike Ndolo (26:22)
Absolutely.

Alexis Rice (26:28)
the nones group, they were Christian homes, Catholic Protestant. know Jesus, they were taught about the God of and then we see fruits of the Spirit not aligning with the values that we were taught in the local church spaces. And so the spirituality in us trusting that the Holy Spirit is moving in us.

sometimes tells us we need to not be in this local space that we put ourselves in, right? For the spirit to really actually about what can grow out of this awfulness because I feel like if you continue to look back in history, the worst periods in history anywhere in the world, like good always eventually comes out of it, right?

Ike Ndolo (26:55)
Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah.

Alexis Rice (27:16)
is beauty in the human will to exist and thrive that never dies. I'm curious of about how that feeds into your music and your ministry and that overlap in your life. music's obviously super important to you. You have this beautiful gift. I love your music. I love the way it makes me feel.

we talked a little bit before we started recording often in traditional spaces, Catholic or mainline spaces, let's say church with organs, a lot of them can be more liberal in their theology, but extreme tradition around the music part, And this is like a really hard thing for people to connect with if they didn't grow up

Ike Ndolo (29:25)
Yeah.

Alexis Rice (29:31)
having organ music, But then there's a lot of people who grew up with organ music and you can't take the organ. So I'm just curious about what you feel about music let's talk about how that influences your faith.

Ike Ndolo (29:36)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I grew up with organ I didn't think anything of it. I just thought that was just my church experience and I didn't know anything actually, the choir and the organist and the music kind of director really amazing. Like they went to Carnegie Hall every year. Like they were really good. They were really

I didn't have any real complaints. I didn't know any better. And then when I was a junior in high mom made us go to the Catholic church, which is like a few blocks away for their youth group. And so they had a youth mass, like a youth service. I think this was the first time I saw like guitars at mass. And I was very confused. I was like, what the heck? You can do this at church?

at a Catholic church. I was blown away. I that was really cool. The songs they were singing were newer. And then we started going on retreats. And this is kind of where I first got introduced to Christian music, like Jars of Clay and Stephen Curtis Chapman. Like the Youth minister at the time would like make us it would make us like compilation. Yeah. He would make us like these compilation CDs.

Alexis Rice (30:43)
You're speaking my language. Yes.

Ike Ndolo (30:51)
all this but he would like to think outside the box, Dave Matthews has a song called the Christmas song. it it was a song about the incarnation of the song about Jesus and Mary. And it was like this really kind of beautiful song. so anyway, that was kind of like my first introduction into like Jesus music. And, ⁓

I actually wasn't a huge fan. mean, it's like nostalgic when I look back, but I was like a kid who loved hip hop. know, like that was like what I listened I didn't listen to other stuff, but like undercover. So like my friends, like I'm listening to like, Tupac and Juvenile and that's where I'm listening to. But like sometimes alone, I would listen to like Matchbox 20, like when I'm in my feels about a girl, you know what I'm saying?

Alexis Rice (31:13)
You

Ike Ndolo (31:36)
we grew up with Bob Marley. was a huge influence in our household and traditional Nigerian music. when I went, I wore Nirvana shirt. Nirvana was obviously a millennial born in the eighties, lived in the nineties. Nirvana was huge and Nirvana was cool across racial lines. remember Arsenio Hall had

Alexis Rice (31:41)
and you're wearing a Nirvana shirt.

Ike Ndolo (31:56)
Nirvana on his show I love music. I love enough. I did not play music or sing or did anything like until I was 18 I was in high school

Alexis Rice (32:06)
do it. Do

Ike Ndolo (32:08)
Horrible student, horrible student. And I had a class that I took my junior year called African American Studies. Love this class. I took it again my senior year. The teacher who was amazing, He was like, hey, it's gonna be the same stuff, but I want you in the class. Why don't you do an independent study for the whole year? which was like pretty cool. Cause like I said, horrible student. Shouldn't have trusted me to do that, but he did. my first semester I chose Rossefarianism cause I was a huge Bob Marley fan.

So I wanted to learn more about Bob Marley's religion. And so I did a whole presentation on Rastafarianism. my teacher comes to me and is like, hey, I want you to switch up for the next semester. Why don't study on reggae music? I'm like, great. And then he said something to me, which is crazy, which doesn't sound crazy now, but let me tell you then,

I was a football player, bad student, never sang in front of anybody, never did anything extracurricular. I didn't even know I could sing. He said this to me, he's like, for your final project, I want you to write a reggae song, an original reggae song. I was like, what? And he's like, I want you to sing it in front of everybody. These place in our auditorium. So was like friends and family came after school hours.

So was like, shit, okay, all right. That's crazy that you asked me to do that, but sure. So I wrote this song. End of the semester comes, I sing it as part of my presentation. I'm nervous. I don't play an instrument. So I did it acapella. My family's there, my mom and my two siblings. I'm the oldest. And afterwards, you know, my mom is crying. She's like, that was so great, but she's a mom. know, like moms are always proud of what you do, even if it sucks.

But my siblings, you your siblings don't BS you. My brother was like, hey, that was actually good. I'm like, really? And then my sister was like, she's my little sister. She said, ⁓ hey, thought I was gonna leave the room because I didn't want to see you embarrass yourself, but you actually sounded good. I was like, really? And I bought my first guitar. like a couple of days later at a pawn shop. And then I graduated high school, moved to Arizona.

to do this seven month school of evangelization and mission called Youth Rise. It doesn't exist anymore. was like this missionary training kind of program. And I was learning how to be a youth minister and all these things. so I brought my guitar. And that's when I first started learning how to really play in the context of worship. song I ever learned on guitar was Bob Marley Redemption song.

I started really learning guitar by leading worship. And so my first ever worship song was, what's it called? In the Secret, in the secret, in the quiet place. You know that song?

Alexis Rice (34:39)
I love that

one. yeah, in the stillness.

Ike Ndolo (34:42)
You are there

Alexis Rice (34:45)
yeah.

Ike Ndolo (34:46)
during this program I was interning at a church under a youth minister I picked up these songs and then I think three months later I was leading worship for middle school kids nervous as hell And I remember this dude comes up to me. He was a seminarian at the time becoming a priest

he had like some real critique. He was like, that was okay. And he was like, you know, you were a little nervous that I'm okay. And then I did like a coffee shop thing at this program. And this dude comes up to me afterwards, super rude. was like, well, don't quit your day job. I'm like, okay, I get it. I'm not good. But I liked, playing music, I did that jump from, learning how to play all these worship songs to writing.

songs and I was just like playing coffee shops and whatnot and I got a job at a church I don't know how to describe this church, but it's called st. Timothy's in Mesa, Arizona and at this church, this is where I met Matt Maher was working with Yeah Yeah, it's great stuff he was there at this church and I was hired at this church to be a youth minister

Alexis Rice (35:36)
Such great music. ⁓ man, I love what he does. Yeah.

Ike Ndolo (35:46)
had no designs to do music because Matt was there and there's other guy who was like a mentor to him and to myself but he really was the mentor for all of anybody any Catholic worship leader because there's several of us out there who are writing songs Catholic worship songs. He kind of was like the first guy doing that. And anyway, he was at this church. and it was like the

I don't know how to describe this. It was like a mega church, but for Catholics, the services were full. The pastor was well known and all this stuff. Anyway, I got hired at this church, which was like a big deal for me. and slowly and surely they just started kind of inviting me to do music, at the masses. And I was, I mean, I was blown away. I I don't, you know, you know, Matt, but like, both Matt and Tom, all these guys here, this was like a big deal for

He was a huge deal and they're asking me to sing and like play guitar. I'm like, yo, this is crazy It's cool. And it was really at that time that felt the shift that Maybe this was something and actually my friend Tom who was like I said the mentor to kind of all of us He said to me one day, We were doing a mass or something or leading worship at something and he was like, hey He's like, I don't know why God brought you here to this church, but it wasn't to do youth ministry. It was to do music

And that was like the moment, that was this is a guy who was a mentor to me. He was spiritual advisor. And he said this to me. It was very much like, this is a word from the Lord. This is not just me saying this. Like, I really believe this for you. And that's kind of where it all started. that's where I, for myself, I thought, oh yeah, moving over from.

kind of the youth ministry side music. I started kind of writing songs in earnest and I got approached by a record label out of Oregon who Matt and Tom were also signed to and they asked me to do a record. so I released my first record in 2009. It's called We Are the Beggars and very, very proud of that. But it was such a crazy journey from

Not even playing guitar because my you know people who've been doing this for like you had Jon Guerra like he's like a musical hero Of mine that dude's so good. He's incredible Yeah, yeah, it's incredible. a great songwriter amazing musician, you know, like I've been playing guitar since I was 18 which I guess now I'm old but you know, like these guys have been playing it way longer than are way better than was I took it's like such a crazy journey that I feel like

Alexis Rice (37:48)
Yeah, John's incredible. American gospel and citizens and come on. Yeah.

Ike Ndolo (38:08)
I went on to get to where I am now and really always loved songwriting. I love songs, but I always loved songwriting because I wanted to hear what people were saying. of any note? Do you know what I'm saying? Like Bob Marley had such a weight to his songs. they weren't just songs to dance to. They were songs to listen and to learn and to be challenged.

Alexis Rice (38:25)
I do, yeah.

Ike Ndolo (38:35)
And I've always been that type of songwriting. Always poetic. love people who are poetic. know, I fell in love with Dave Matthews and Ben Harper. I love music that means something that's saying something that's challenging. And I've always kind of strived to write those types of songs. So my first record was reflection. I was wanted to write songs that

people could worship to, but I also wanted to write songs that challenged people. that's just kind of the artists I've always been, because those are the people that have mostly influenced me. And think if I wasn't writing songs, I'd be writing poems, I'd be writing prose, I'd be writing something, because I have such a love for write.

not just musicians, James Baldwin, Langston Hughes, one of my favorite poets of all time, But especially when people, who write songs or whatever poetry that mean something, that draw you away from yourself, draw you upwards, make you reflect.

inspire, they fire you. You those are types of songs things that I love and try to emulate imperfectly, but try as much as

Alexis Rice (39:39)
I can hear exactly what you're saying. I also am drawn to music like we have a lot of similar taste in music actually all around. I hadn't really thought of it in the way you said it. I would add Tori Amos to that list. such a really beautiful storyteller.

Ike Ndolo (39:46)
Yeah,

Alexis Rice (39:54)
In the Netherlands, my husband's Dutch, tell stories throughout their music, which is really beautiful and But Jon Guerra is definitely at the top for me. And Sara Groves also just big time had her on the podcast. Semler too, Semler talks about some really deep stuff in ways that the chords resonate. And I just love that.

Ike Ndolo (39:59)
Hmm.

Yeah.

yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Alexis Rice (40:15)
Derek Webb too. Derek also does this kind of writing, this kind of music, especially his new Songs, about the queer experience. You can really just lose yourself in that. So, yeah.

Ike Ndolo (40:16)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mmm.

Yeah,

Alexis Rice (40:28)
Just

curious to know what inspired you to write Sons and Daughters get into what drove you to write that and how that feels as you perform it.

Ike Ndolo (40:39)
Yeah, so Sons and Daughters is actually a co-write Matt recorded this song years I did that started writing the song and we kind of finished it together, but he was inspired by Martin Luther King's last speech. And...

Alexis Rice (40:44)
⁓ I didn't

Ike Ndolo (40:54)
That was kind of the driving force, we shall overcome the bridge. you know, it's a protest song that was used in the civil rights march. recorded it. We wrote it. I mean, he had like verse chorus. I can't remember

It's hard because we wrote this song. mean, this song is it's old song. It's an old song. I think we wrote it in 2014. I can't remember. co-writing is such a it's fun and it could also be very, challenging. I think Matt for this one maybe wanted to make sure that he was doing his due kind of like diligence. So I came in and helped.

finish the song and I loved it. And his kind of dream, his version actually, he had, he wanted to include Martin Luther King's parts of his speech. So his song starts out with Martin Luther King speaking over kind of the chords playing. And it's a very hard thing. Like Martin Luther King's stuff he's protected by his foundation, like his kids. So

to give them parts of the song. So I think they have like 10 % royalty the song. But I remember, that was like a huge component to see if you can get that piece in. Because it was, you know, the song starts out, free is anyone, when some are still in chains. that line means so much because when we talk about liberation, black liberation, queer liberation, Palestinian liberation

liberation for all oppressed people. think sometimes for instance, I've been, very vocal about Gaza and liberation Palestine, once in a while, thank but every once in a I have a comment like, what about this? What about that? What about this? free is anyone when some are still in chains really talks about our collective liberation.

Alexis Rice (42:20)
Yes, I love your voice on it.

Ike Ndolo (42:33)
like we're not free until everyone is free. So when I'm vocal about Gaza, it doesn't negate Congo or Sudan or anywhere else that is suffering oppression. Like this liberation here is liberation for all. that modeled Martin Luther King. And we had these conversations when we were writing the song, we've kind of taken who he was, sanitized it,

He has statues, has streets named after him. But if you dig deep into historical records, Luther King was a very unliked human being. People did not like him. was looked as the divestment. Some of the things that people say today about modern justice workers and so forth, they say the same things about Martin Luther King. And so Martin Luther King, I think,

He revolutionized protests in our country, really looked to Gandhi for his inspiration and brought it here and shocked the system, shocked the world, shocked many Americans when they saw Jim Crow in their faces. And it was looked at as, yeah, this is a thing that we should probably stop doing, at least on the outside.

And that is important. think the reality is, Martin Luther King was still shot and killed because he took that line, that thought, that sentiment, like we're not free until we're all liberation goes deeper than just taking away the facade of segregation. When he started partnering with what seemed to be opposite polar ends of the civil rights movement,

like Malcolm X, when he started the Poor People's Campaign and was like, need to address poverty and rampant capitalism is when he becomes a threat labeled a communist and ultimately killed. I'm not going to get into the conspiracy of it, but I think the reality is, when you start fighting for liberation for people.

Truly truly like true liberation it threatens the status quo it threatens the powers that be freeing the oppressed will also free the oppressors right

we need to, and we do, we need to overthrow all oppression. All oppression must cease, is of my, a line from one of my favorite Christmas songs and songs in general. Yeah, Holy Night.

You know, Jesus comes to set the captives free. And that's everyone you see the oppressed in their chains, it's a very obvious thing, but to feel the need to be the person putting the chains. you are bound up in this other person's enslavement in their oppression.

And also by chance, you are not free. It's like not being able to forgive, right? Like ⁓ I need to forgive the people who have harmed me because I am holding this thing over them and am not free. So the oppressor, for some reason, a motive, for instance, the big motivation right now is greed and capitalism, rampant capitalism, right? idea that I need more.

Alexis Rice (45:22)
Yes.

Ike Ndolo (45:42)
I need more power, I need more money. And the only way to achieve this, the only way to get those things is to put people under me. we have these people who have so much wealth, so much influence, and so much power. And the only way that they are allowed to have this money and this power

Alexis Rice (45:57)
I'm

Ike Ndolo (46:04)
is because people like us in the mud, them that leg up. We the road on which they're driving their bus over. the steps in which they're stepping to this greater power and we get left behind. for what? Their motive is they need more. It's like the rich young man, What can I do to inherit the kingdom? Jesus says, do all these things. Like I do those things.

And then he says, okay, then sell all you have. And right there, the rich young man, what? Went away sad because he had a lot of stuff. And that stuff, those things that he was grasping that he wanted, he felt he needed were also keeping him in chains. And you look at the billionaire, you look at the powerful, you look at the oppressor who for some reason feels the need to look at somebody else as other, as a less than, and to oppress them

And to them low you are also yourself as an oppressor in chains And so when the collective says enough is enough. This is gonna be good for us It's gonna be good for you because We can live together in a free society in a free place without the striving for dominance or Whatever it is that you feel needs to can you let that go?

Can you oppress or let his oppression go? I think about Rwanda and the stories that come out after the genocide and after the violence there Hearing stories of this radical forgiveness, because after it's all said and done, they're living in the same place and they have to.

confront each other, the oppressed, but the oppressor. as a Christian, say, yes, we need to forgive. But it's hard for me as a human being. It's hard for me to let go of my anger and my unforgiveness for the people who have wronged me and to see how

that freed so many people in that conflict when able to look at their oppressors, they say, I forgive you, and then vice versa. Or I received that forgiveness and in gratitude mean, that blows me away. think that all goes back this will free us all. It will free the oppressor from feeling the need to oppress. So we can move forward.

It's very incomplete, but I think this is what,

historically for civil rights leaders has always finally gets the attention the person, of or the powerful people when they say, hey, we can do this together. Fred Hampton in Chicago, from the Black Panthers, he pulled together the Rainbow poor Mexican people.

And he said, we can do this together. And then all of sudden, months later, he's dead because that's when he becomes a threat. how tiring is that? it must be so exhausting to constantly feel the need to control. Martin Luther King talks about, the arc of the moral universe is long when it bends towards justice. And I think I want to believe those words. It feels like the arc.

is taking too long to bend and it's bending the other we kind of see sometimes in not just our country but across the world has to be hope that. So anyway, Sons and Daughters is about liberation. It's about liberation for us all. It's about of our own sinfulness and our own the things that cling to and hold on to.

the chorus, all my brothers help each other, all my sisters walk together.

The crux of it all, obviously in the spirit of Martin Luther King, in the second verse, it says, join hands with everyone and to sing, like we said earlier we're talking about people who have left maybe their evangelical churches

just think that part, and as a worship leader, as a songwriter, the coolest, most beautiful moments are when people sing together. There is something really It's why songs are part of protest. It's like why you go to a protest and you hear people singing songs. It's why those songs from the 60s were so important. It's why we need artists who are writing songs calling us.

calling the culture, calling everyone

to move, be challenged, to grow, to repent, to work for liberation, to confront their own brokenness and biases and whatever it is. Like we need those things. Music is so important. as a worship leader, as a songwriter, it's like kind of my greatest joy when those things happen, when I get to do that. And I've done it in really huge rooms and done it in bars.

I think my favorite is bars, but yeah, Sons and Daughters really truly is about.

The work of liberation, the work of justice, we can do together and it will free us line, we shall overcome, we shall overcome. The victory is won, is something that we added in there because coming from a Christian standpoint and who Jesus is and the victory that he has already kind of just won for us.

The idea I think today, and I see a lot in Christianity where it's like constantly fighting still. Like we have to fight against the culture and we have to fight against it. So I see a lot, not just in evangelical circles, definitely Catholic circles as well. We're fighting these culture wars and we have to defend the church. I think it's a very strange concept. especially looking at Jesus who, said things like turning

the other cheek, love your enemies. the gates of the netherworld will never prevail against the church. So I'm like, why are you again doing this stuff that you don't need to do? the whole like, I need to defend the faith, defend the faith, defend Jesus. He doesn't need your defense. Like that's the weirdest thing that I see right now in cultural Christianity, especially in America is this.

We are, it's the constant fighting of this culture war. like, why are you doing that? I mean, Paul rejoiced for being imprisoned. and we're, sad because what? ⁓ gay person wants a cake. I just, I, I, it's like the most baffling thing.

really scripturally doesn't make any Jesus doesn't even get mad except for a few times when he flips tables, right? But nobody wants to talk about that. He's either super meek or mild or he's hating gay people. I'm dude, I'm truly at a loss. And I think scripture, and I'm not a theologian, so I'm just saying this off the cuff.

And it might be completely, whatever.

I look at the a thematic thing, because you can take any little line and use it to justify the awful things that you believe or think, right? Like, so slave owners use the Bible to justify then, but enslaved people would read that same Bible and they see a justification for their liberation, right?

Alexis Rice (56:32)
Yes, they did.

Ike Ndolo (56:39)
And so my thing is, okay, take a step back. what is this thing trying to say to us as a whole in its totality? Stop going to this verse or this, what's the whole thing about salvation history? It's about salvation. It's about scripture talks constantly about freeing the captives, loving your enemy. And especially when we get into the New Testament with Jesus,

there's this whole trend. I'm seeing this like very disturbing thing where I'm seeing these like white evangelical pastors going on their podcasts talking about the justification for slavery. like, God is okay with slavery. Truly I'm seeing these things. I'm like, this is like dystopian, man. so many quiet parts are not quiet anymore.

You can take scripture and do that. I'm like, there was slavery in the Bible. And for myself, I think what's helped me a lot, and also being Catholic, growing up Catholic, there never was how do I describe it? Well, one, Catholics don't read the Bible. Let's just be.

Alexis Rice (57:35)
That is not a helpful thing to say for evangelicals because evangelicals will be like, that's why we're right and that's why Catholics are not. Like just throwing that out there like, no.

Ike Ndolo (57:42)
Exactly But I'm gonna I'm gonna say it I'm gonna say it cuz this and this one was that

because every Week and if you go every day you read you listen to the Bible in its entirety, the Bible is read not we don't pick and choose Every single Sunday You go to church every single Sunday

for, don't know, can't remember how it is, we have a cycle, right? You're gonna hear the Bible in its entirety. So there are Sundays where this is the reading. It's not like, oh, this is our series on whatever cherry that we really like. No, no, no, no, Now we're gonna have to read about this thing where it seems talking about socialism. And so what my favorite thing is to watch priests say, well, know, God's not saying we have to be socialists. I'm like, dude.

looks like it is, and so some priests will really rise to the occasion and say, no, we're going to preach about this hard thing. it's not about interpretation because I think that's a whole other thing. It's very individualistic. Like, well, I'm reading the Bible. I'm going to determine it for myself. It's fine. You can, you know, you can. But I think also like as a historical document, right, which Bible? Tons and tons of different Bibles, which one?

Which one is your one? Because my Bible has this book, yours doesn't have. So which one is it?

Alexis Rice (59:03)
Yep.

Your Bibles always have the Apocrypha right? Yeah. Yeah.

Ike Ndolo (59:07)
Yeah, exactly. Always. And

lot of process didn't grow. don't have that. So like the thing is exactly.

Alexis Rice (59:11)
No. People still don't know what that is in evangelical spaces in general, just that it's

the Apocrypha and it's untrue and therefore Catholics don't have the faith. I'm just throwing it out there so that you know. And it's ridiculous. It's so it's it's an can you mention that real quick? what is the Bible in its full with the Apocrypha like mean?

Ike Ndolo (59:24)
no no, ⁓ I know, I know.

To me, it's a drama. a being told. It really truly is. It is salvation history. We talk about it being the Word of God. We also, as Catholics, call it the Word of God. Which, by the way, denominations, it was the church who put

these books together and said, hey, these are the books and these are the books and these are the books, these are the books, right? And there's a whole bunch of other books that churches a bunch of bishops, Catholic bishops, didn't call them Catholics, were just because it was just the church said, we're not using these, these are weird, when we call it the inspired word of what it definitely means. It's the inspired word of God. God didn't write these books.

a chisel hammer and chisel from the sky. men and women, mostly men wrote them. And there was historical context.

had a It was my third record called Shine. It was not a Christian record at all. It was like just music that I wanted to do. And I loved that record. And it was

You know playing shows and I play this show to a club or whatever in I was opening for this band from Canada Play the show Afterwards the dude playing bass comes up to me. He's like, man, like look you're set out of those same same same you we started talking and he was I told him like yeah, I'm a worship leader That's how I actually make my money. He's like what really like tell me about that And so we're just kind of going through I was being very honest. I'm like,

Struggle with my faith, you know, think I said some days I wake up and I'm like, I don't know if I believe any of this You know, like that's just the nature of faith, you there's this guy standing off to the side and he comes up to me. He's a man You're set. Oh thanks. He's like I couldn't help but overhear your conversation one here because I know the look, know, I'm not you know, I know the look Young guy he was like, you know, I just want to tell you like, you know heard what you said and like I just want to tell you

Alexis Rice (1:00:58)
That's right.

Ike Ndolo (1:01:16)
not a yeah, he said that to me. He's like, you're not a believer. These are actual words that this dude.

Alexis Rice (1:01:17)
What?

Why does he get to be

judge

Ike Ndolo (1:01:27)
Who knows? Who knows? It's the audacity. you know, it was like a show, man. Like I have like a whiskey and Coke in my hand. I'm not trying to have this thing, but I went into it with this kid. And he was a kid to me because he was, he was young, basically I was like, dude, I don't know why you think you have the right to say that to me.

Alexis Rice (1:01:27)
It's the arrogance these days, man. Okay, keep

Ike Ndolo (1:01:46)
And we went back and forth and back and forth. And finally, asked him, like, hey, dude, how old do you think the world is? He said, 5,000 years old. like, yeah, I'm like, I'm like, you know what, man? Listen, we're coming from two different, like, I mean, you know, harm. Like this is, and he thought I was being condescending. Like, no, we just don't have the framework. This is a very fruitless thing. You are very convinced in your very narrow worldview and your very little experience in life.

Alexis Rice (1:01:54)
Six thousand years old. How do you know?

Ike Ndolo (1:02:13)
That this is how it is and because I said these things you have labeled me this which by the end he was like maybe I should have said that was a little bit okay fine, but the reality is is dude We're not on the same. We're not even on the same planet We're not you know like I'm sorry, but and it's just these things like the you know for him It's like the earth is six thousand years old and for Catholics We no I don't know if there's any Catholic who believes that because this does not something that we Yes

Alexis Rice (1:02:39)
Interesting. What do you learn?

Ike Ndolo (1:02:42)
We learn about Adam and Eve, but we don't learn it as like this has, this is, we need to believe this exact story for our salvation. if you get down to it with anybody, if you say to them like, do I have to believe in Adam and Eve to go to heaven? Well, to be saved? Well, no, guess I don't. And like, exactly. It's a story, man. Let it be a story. Let it.

Alexis Rice (1:02:44)
Yeah.

Ike Ndolo (1:03:07)
Be the spirit what creation is. Take what you want from it. so you'll take this text and you will say, this is how it is, verbatim. But then you'll get to the bread of life discourse where Jesus says, drink my blood ⁓ and ⁓ eat my body and I am the bread of life. And you'll say, well, that was just a metaphor. ⁓

Yeah, okay. Well, but we read that as at like this is from Jesus himself, right? These are the words in four different gospel accounts where he says I am the bread of life Drink my blood eat my flesh. And so we take that we took that part literally was there like listen This is this little thing is he said he could do it. So we'll do that but You know like there are parts of of scripture like okay, especially when someone will get to like Noah's Ark or whatever is like guys

We have things that have been like revealed us through like science that we know like the earth can't be 6,000 years old, but that is actually okay It's okay that the world is not 6,000 years and it's not necessary for my salvation And I think from that lens not throwing those things out. I think there's important things to learn from every single part of history

or every single part of scripture. But I think it's understanding it within the whole context of the story and salvation history itself, toward the culmination of all these things that we are hearing from the Old Testament to the New Testament to the Incarnation death and resurrection of Christ where it is a story of God coming after his people, trying to bring us closer to him, to have us be like God.

and for us to realize that

We have a creator who looks at us as filled with dignity. what scripture is about. That I would look at you and my enemy and say, you are inherently good, because you were made and created and breathed into.

and worthy of love Welcome into God's family that's the theme and There's very important things he says over and over again. Love me love your neighbor Treat the widow good, you know like feed the poor

the are the peacemakers that's to me Especially the things that Jesus says It's like Jesus confirming the things that are important he looks back and says,

I'm the culmination of everything that you've heard. I'm the fulfillment of it. And so I've always thought, well, the things that he says and confirms should be the most important things, Like I said, I'm just a songwriter. What do I know? But I think for me, I look at it as a whole and the things that especially Jesus was trying to get us to do was to

all and love everyone that I don't need to hear about. Your treatise on why slavery is what is allowed in scripture. Dude, you're missing the whole point. You're talking about context. Everyone was so up in arms about context when Charlie Kirk died and, people who like myself who, made a video about him and

I had some people who like, you miss the context of what he said. I'm like, okay. You know, like you're talking about context, fine. But what we're talking about here in scripture, right? If you want to take everything in the context is the love of God that he has for you and for neighbor, your neighbor and for everyone. The things that he calls us to, to be like him.

That's context right there. And all the other things we're hearing through a lens of, and this is where being Catholic, very, I just, you I think it's funny because we're very like, when I say we don't read the being a little extreme, because we do. But we also hear it all the time. integrated within our services, within our mass, within our lives, within our prayers that we pray.

it's really about what is God trying to say to us? And what has he been trying to say to us throughout salvation history, which is, you know, scripture. So anyway, I'm sure some theologian will pick me apart. Fine, it's fine.

Alexis Rice (1:07:16)
Yeah.

Yeah, and no, you know what? And let's not

let a lot of evangelicals off the hook. I have heard that a lot of evangelical, non-denominational conservative, even pastors have struggled in the last even decade because there's a lot less Bible reading as well and a lot more Fox News viewing. And so the pastors have said, I only get them for an hour a week they're listening to

Ike Ndolo (1:07:33)
Mmm.

Alexis Rice (1:07:40)
Tucker watching Fox OAN just all week. And it's very difficult even for conservative pastors to be having these messages people not flipping out. And there has been a lot less Bible reading and a lot more going onto social especially entering this manosphere very quickly when they're looking for Christian content, it pushes them immediately to

Ike Ndolo (1:07:46)
Mm-hmm.

Alexis Rice (1:08:05)
a lot of that content, even when they've been wanting to honestly, earnestly seek the Bible versus being at a church even, or being more connected to a church space. ⁓ So that stuff's real important.

Ike Ndolo (1:08:11)
Yeah.

Yep.

there's a song that I wrote called Won't He Do It. And as I move kind of through my songwriting journey and writing less, explicit kind of like trying to write these big worship songs, Won't He Do It is obviously a very kind of popular line and especially black churches. And having grown up in a very white Catholic church, always felt kind of adjacent, you know, to the black church.

it's always been learning, but that line is always kind of resonated with me. And I wanted to write a song around that. I wrote a song around it, verses initially were very generic. I had a friend of mine who's in Christian music. He's a publisher. He's like, Hey, are you trying a Dove award? Are you trying to just like write a song? like, yeah, yeah. He's like, just write what you, these lyrics will be fine if you want to try to get, but that's not what you're about. Like you're right. And so I wrote,

The verses that were very specific, the line, won't he do it is this very hopeful thing. And I wrote the verses very intentionally to be these people in very impossible situations. The first verse, I was thinking about a person on death row who's innocent, second verse was about a family in Gaza who's trying to survive, and those words, won't he do it almost becomes like, it's a question. Will he, will he do it?

for me. And I have a friend of mine who just recently, I wrote this song, these songs, you don't know where it's going to go. And I wrote this song, you know, it's been out for a couple of months. And I have a friend, one of my really good friends, who has a two year old, who was just diagnosed with neuroblastoma. And very scary. And she's just this amazing, cute, beautiful, precocious little girl. And they're going through this very, very hard time.

they live in Houston, I'm in San Antonio, and they came to a show that I had in San Antonio. And at the time she was in the middle with her getting diagnosed with cancer. And she heard this song, they heard the song when he do it, and she just has been singing, this little girl, two years old, has been singing this song when he do it. Like, as she goes through chemo. And it's why I have pink nails, it's for her. And I wrote this song.

for these very kind of like huge concepts out there. And I had no idea that it could be so close and so personal and so intimate to one of my best friends and his family and his little girl who's going through this. And let me just tell you she's doing so good. Like they have so much hope. She got some really good scans. Even the doctors are like, we can't believe these scans.

Every day she sings this song. He sends me videos of her singing this song. I am a very cynical person. I've seen a lot of stuff over the years. And to see this little girl singing this stupid song I wrote and ⁓ God seems to be making a way for her and her life has been huge. Sorry. ⁓ So those are the things that God gives me little carrots that says, hey man, I'm... ⁓

I'm still here and I'm working, it seems frustrating and small and the road has been rocky, but I'm still here with you and this song that you think is just inconsequential is making a big impact for this one family and this one little girl. that.

Alexis Rice (1:15:25)
You know, it reminds me of when James Talarico said that he was screaming to God, where are you? And then he realized God was screaming back at us, where are you?

Ike Ndolo (1:15:35)
Mmm.

Alexis Rice (1:15:37)
And that's, I think that's the hope that we can take right now in all the cynicism and that, God used you in that moment. And with this little girl, thank you for the pink nail polish that you as a black man wearing pink nail Catholic man, that there's a lot of layers all of that. is Jesus right there.

Ike Ndolo (1:15:53)
So many

Alexis Rice (1:15:57)
I know that this is a hard season for you. I'm very grateful for your ministry. And I know that that local church space is not where the Spirit's leading you and the Spirit's leading you towards other places we need you in this world and your voice and your hope. So thank you so much. just wanted to do one final plug because I'm very excited. Actually, I'm to look into for my own kids

for your store. Can you tell us where to find that?

Ike Ndolo (1:16:18)
Yeah.

so yeah, just teaching lessons to anyone who wants to guitar, piano, voice, and really kind of rocking into your own creativity. It's at ikesmusicmakers.com, obviously local in San Antonio, but I also do Zoom and whatnot.

Alexis Rice (1:16:33)
Ike Ndolo thank you so much for being on the sacred slope today.

Ike Ndolo (1:16:36)
Yeah, thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Alexis Rice (1:16:38)
Thank you for joining us today on The Sacred Slope. If you'd like to nominate a pastor, priest, or clergy member anywhere in the world, send me an email at Alexis @ thesacredslope.com. May the fruit of the spirit guide you this week. I'm Alexis Rice. Go in peace, friends.