21. Malynda Hale (African Methodist Episcopal – AME) – Being the Good News

🎙️ 21. Malynda Hale (African Methodist Episcopal Church – AME) – Being the Good News

Alexis Rice welcomes artist-activist, writer, and Executive Director at The New Evangelicals @TheNewEvangelicals, Malynda Hale (@malyndahale) — raised in the joy and lift of the Black church. African Methodist Episcopal (AME) church is one of the oldest historically Black denominations in the U.S., born out of resistance, faith, and community. Malynda’s story is a beautiful window into this tradition. This conversation is a master class in a healthy, justice-shaped Christianity lived out loud.

With warmth and clarity, Malynda names what the left gets wrong about grace and messaging, shows how faith can inform politics without erasing pluralism, and invites us to be the good news.

🎧 Highlights:

• AME roots: joy, uplift, belonging, and why she never had to “deconstruct”
• Women preaching & leading without apology
• “Spreading” vs. being the good news
• Grace with standards: calling in without purity tests
• Better messaging for the broad middle
• Faith-informed politics without Christian nationalism
• Why diversity is a spiritual gift
• The story behind Malynda’s protest hymn “God and His Gun”

💬 Key Quotes

• “People are so focused on spreading the good news when they should be focused on being the good news.”

💡 Key Takeaways

• Love has teeth: grace is repair, responsibility, and welcome.
• Simpler, human-first messaging connects; policy is pastoral when it protects people.
• Pluralism strengthens witness: affirm your faith and your neighbor’s freedom.
• Measure faith by its fruit: what we practice online/offline forms the public’s view of Jesus.

👤 About Our Guest
 Malynda Hale is a singer-songwriter, activist, writer, and cultural commentator whose work braids art and justice. She is the Executive Director of The New Evangelicals and creates spaces for honest dialogue on race, faith, and the common good. Don’t miss her powerful protest hymn “God and His Gun.”

📚 Resources & Mentions

• African Methodist Episcopal Church — @amechurchofficial
• The New Evangelicals — @thenewevangelicals
• Rep. James Talarico — @jamestalarico
• United Church of Christ — @unitedchurchofchrist
• Joan Osborne’s “What If God Was One of Us” — @joan_osborne
• Jimmy Kimmel (studio story) — @jimmykimmellive,
  @jimmykimmel

🎵 Music Notes

• God and His

Transcript

Malynda Hale (00:00)
We have a lot of work to do the left. I will never abandon this strongly believe that at the core left and the democratic party, that those values are aligned with Jesus's values. I do. I think it's very obvious in the things that Jesus did and the things that he said and the people that he spent time with and who he protected and who he healed.

Alexis (00:11)
Yes, I do too.

Malynda Hale (00:19)
It's obvious, you just read the red words. this is obvious what this man was doing, right? But we don't have a on that type of messaging. Not that I'm saying that like faith needs to be in the democratic's politics, but we don't really have handle on that messaging. But I'll never abandon that side because it doesn't align with my faith.

Alexis (00:42)
Welcome to the Sacred Slope. I'm your host Alexis Rice. And today going to be talking with Malynda Hale. Something that Malynda says in this episode is people are so focused on spreading the good news when they should be focused on being the good news.

Hale is an artist activist raised in the joy and the lift of the Black church.

She's a progressive who really never had to deconstruct to love Jesus This episode is different because it isn't a rescue story from a harmful lens of faith. It's this master class in what a healthy justice-shaped Christianity looks like in public.

Malynda names what the left gets wrong about grace and messaging and shows how faith can inform politics without erasing pluralism. she reminds us that love has teeth. So why should you care? Because

If you've ever wondered how to keep your faith tender and your spine strong, how to show up online without becoming what you oppose, or how to speak "Christian" in a country that's tired of Christians, Malynda hands us a language a practice. about the distinctive joy of the AME tradition, women leading without apology, and we talk about her haunting protest hymn God and his gun.

This conversation

it made me more courageous. Let's be the good news.

Alexis (02:37)
Welcome back to the Sacred Slope, friends. Today's guest Hale. Hi, Malynda Fine, thanks, how are you?

Malynda Hale (02:43)
Hi, how are you? I'm

great, thanks for having me. I've been looking forward to this.

Alexis (02:49)
some badass moms who are doing this at nighttime when the kids are in bed.

Malynda Hale (02:53)
Yep, yep, yep. I'm sure if they hear that I'm doing something, something will happen. Because they always try to figure out when you're working or when you need to do something and they always show up. God bless our kids, right? I love them. I love them.

Alexis (02:55)
Yes.

Yes,

yes, right. I'm waiting for mine to come in right now too. I would love for those who are not familiar with all of your work to learn a little bit more about you. Malynda is a singer, songwriter, actress, director. Malynda's been a podcast host, now a sub-stack writer and activist whose career has braided together art and justice in extraordinary ways.

Malynda Hale (03:09)
Hahaha!

Yeah.

Alexis (03:32)
From starring on stage to releasing soul-stirring music to founding the Black Voices Heard Project, she has used her voice to call out racism, gun violence, and Christian nationalism while creating spaces where love and belonging can flourish. Her fearless honesty has carried her from opera training at Azusa Pacific to national platforms like on CNN, Good Morning America, NPR, and The Daily Beast.

She's been honored as a hero against hate by the Anti-Defamation League and named one of Wired's top influencers shaping the public square. And her song, God and His Gun, with its haunting lyric, I'll leave you to your God and His gun, is one of the most raw and emotional and necessary protest hymns of our time. her substack is hashtag we need to talk, which came from her original podcast where she interviewed

some amazing cultural influences like Senator Raphael Warnock and Michelle Williams of Destiny's Child. Malynda is always insisting on honest dialogue that refuses to separate faith from justice or art from truth. Her voice is prayer, her voice is protest, her voice is prophecy, and you're going to see that today. So welcome to the Sacred Slope, Malynda.

Malynda Hale (04:46)
What a bio and intro. my gosh, I might have to steal that.

Alexis (04:50)
⁓ Well, it's all yours!

Malynda Hale (04:53)
⁓ love it.

⁓ what an incredible welcome. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's always weird to like hear people talking about the things that you've done. You're like, I did do that. I do do that. I've done that. So it's a humbling moment, But thank you. That was very sweet.

Alexis (04:59)
So.

Well, before we dive into history of your I would love to hear about the history of your day. I saw your Instagram and it looked like you had a blast today. So can you tell us a little bit about that? And you can tell us the story of your was just so touching.

Malynda Hale (05:19)
⁓ yeah.

Yeah.

⁓

thank you. today we're recording was the day that Jimmy Kimmel returned to and I got to be in the audience and it was, man, it was really celebratory. It was emotional. It was exciting. felt historical.

Alexis (05:35)
Yeah!

Malynda Hale (05:47)
And the ties that I have to Jimmy Kimmel, I posted this when his show was taken off the air. My dad was actually one of his security for 10 years. He worked security at the Jimmy Kimmel Live show. And I used to go to that show all the time when I was in college and saw a lot of great artists and great guests there. was a family. And when my dad retired,

They gifted him a they had little party for him. Jimmy was there and everything and they gave him a rocking chair. And on the inscription it says, I think it's like you've been standing long enough like you can rest now. And it's in my parents living room now. And that's just the type of environment that that show is. And the type of person Jimmy is. Jimmy is a very good person. I want people to understand that he has a very beautiful heart. And he really does take care of every single person that works for that show, which

honestly is in the a lot of people involved behind the scenes, on the scenes, with writing, with the security team, with the crowd wrangling team, with the production team, with the band. mean, the list goes on. so, being there tonight, when people finally watch it, one of the things that he really talked about was that he didn't care about his job.

He cared about all those other people that were losing their jobs because know, he's like, basically like, I'll be fine, But he cares so much about these other people because without them, his show doesn't happen. And that's really what his heart is. And when he thinks about this administration going after talk show hosts, it's not about the hosts and it's about everybody that makes the show happen.

it was really beautiful to hear him talk about it in that way because I don't think people realize that it's not just Jimmy Kimmel getting fired. It's not just Stephen Colbert getting fired. It's not now the administration is going after Jimmy Fallon and Seth Meyers. It's not them. It's all of the hundreds of people that it takes to make those shows happen. hopefully I think people that'll turn a light bulb on for them to realize that

Why would the president of the United States want hundreds of people to lose their jobs just because he can't take a joke?

one of the biggest takeaways struck me that he was saying in his monologue. And he was very emotional and he was very sincere. But I highly recommend people watching it, you know, if you haven't yet, But he's just a good, he's a good human. He really is a good human.

Alexis (08:12)
Yeah, you can tell when he talks about his son, when he talks about issues, I have always gotten the sense it's because he truly cares about people. I get the sense, that his heart is in the camp of not wanting others to be hurt. And so he just seems to care about when he sees others in pain. he seems to like to stand up to bullies.

Malynda Hale (08:35)
Yeah, yeah,

Alexis (08:37)
does it in funny way, so it gets...

Malynda Hale (08:38)
Yes, comedy is

the go-to, which I

Alexis (08:42)
there anything else that was pretty fun that happened?

Malynda Hale (08:44)
Yeah, so

it's funny because when I used to go back in the day, I would do this also, but I got to sing for the audience again tonight during a commercial break. So that was so fun. Yeah, it was just great. It was fun. you know, the band, everybody, you know, my dad was so beloved at that show. So everyone was really excited when I reminded them that I was his daughter and they were like, we love your dad.

and then I sang with the band because I had done that before. So it felt like I was back in college again. It was great. It was so much fun. It was great. I really enjoyed it. Yeah.

Alexis (09:11)
Hahaha

That's amazing. Well, I'd love to talk about what your faith, which I can sense from everything that I see around you, that your faith is central and core to who you are. your faith determines your values and it determines your activism. that's what draws me so much to the character of who you are and your willingness to be so forward.

Malynda Hale (09:28)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Alexis (09:39)
out there, especially in progressive spaces where, you know, not everyone does that, right, chooses to do that. And so I really appreciate you for that. So I'd love to hear a little bit about what faith looked like for you growing up.

Malynda Hale (09:51)
Yeah, so my mom is really my spiritual anchor. She raised us in the church. My dad was never a church person. He would go to like Christmas and Easter. That was it. Don't blame him. get it. Church isn't for everybody. But my mom was really my spiritual anchor and where a lot of my beliefs are formed from. And the church that I went to, I grew up in Santa Barbara, California, which is predominantly a white city.

we went to one of the only black churches in the city and it's now a historical landmark. It's African Methodist Episcopal Church, AME Church, black church, and grew up with the gospel choir, very, very loving, inclusive, progressive environment. And so a lot of the conservative evangelical mindset and theology I was not exposed to.

Alexis (10:40)
I'm so happy

for you. ⁓

Malynda Hale (10:41)
Yeah, it's interesting

because I just didn't, I was never exposed to any of that. So I never went through a deconstruction period because I was always raised a progressive Christian, which to me was just a Christian. Like there was no like delineation from like from, was just, I was a Christian. And so when I went to Azusa Pacific University, which by and large is a more conservative evangelical Christian college, I was like, what?

is this? Like, what do you guys believe? I'm so confused. I didn't have the views about the LGBTQ community that they did. I didn't have these views about women, preaching. I didn't have those views. And so I was very confused. And I was very isolated what I believed in and how I operated because I felt that Christianity and faith was very simple.

Alexis (11:12)
Hmm.

Malynda Hale (11:31)
And I felt that what Jesus said was also very simple and not difficult to follow. And so to see it be really twisted and made to be something that, you know, I eventually saw that it was made to control people and manipulate people and abuse people. was like, wow, this is really, really terrible. And I can't believe that people grew up like this, thinking this, thinking that this is OK. And so.

when I left college, I became even more liberal because I was like, I want to be as far away from these people as possible. But as I've grown, my faith has grown. And as you said so beautifully, my faith does inform everything that I do. It is the core of who I am because I joke, I do want to get to heaven.

But it also isn't difficult. It isn't difficult to love your neighbor as you love yourself. I have a lot of self-love. And I think that that's kind of why we're seeing a lot of what we're seeing is that there is no real self-love on that side because how can you love somebody else if you don't love yourself, right? And there's a lot of anger and hatred in that version of Christianity because you're told from the jump.

that you're just this awful human being that's a sinner. And like, unless you do these never gonna make it to heaven. you have to believe in Jesus and you have to do all of these things. And so when you lead, if that's the entry point for a faith, like it just, I was so confused when I would hear that language because that's not ever what I was told. But I think what I realized, is that,

For the black church, we didn't subscribe to that ideology and that theology because so much of our existence already hears that language, right? And so when we're in church, we want that to be our saving grace. We want that to be our place for healing. We want that to be our place for safety. And so...

Alexis (13:13)
Hmm.

Malynda Hale (13:26)
you don't want to come from an outside world that is already treating you like you're at the bottom of the totem pole and then go into this sacred space that is supposed to be loving and then hear that same thing again. And I think that that's where I've noticed the difference between the black church and the white evangelical church is that the black church really has been about uplifting and loving and, and joy. And the white evangelical church

from my experience and from what I've heard from people in different communities I've been a part of, that it's really about telling you all the things that you've done wrong and making you feel like you're worthless and that you're nothing. to me, that is not really a good way to get people to believe what you believe. It's not a good selling point.

it's a long story to talk about my faith journey, but my faith really is just centered around loving people and loving God, which is what we were called to do. And I just think it's so simple. I really just think it's so simple. But again, it starts with self-love, I've

Alexis (14:30)
were so many good nuggets in there. especially when those of us who did not grow up in the Black church, this is very helpful to hear and see. you can see that, I feel you're outside looking in, there is some sort of joy that comes people who are from the Black church and have grown up in that. There is something there that's different. And so it's really nice to hear a little bit about that.

Malynda Hale (14:45)
Yeah.

Alexis (14:51)
also really think it's interesting about what you saw at Azusa. I've had friends that have gone to Azusa and then later came out and then had to lose their faith. And what I hear from you is that really was never even a thing. Is that right? can't even imagine growing up as a Christian, as a woman of faith.

Malynda Hale (15:02)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. 100%.

Alexis (15:16)
being told you can lead, you can lead in all spaces, including in a church if you feel called, and then going to spaces, you more white centered spaces in the evangelical spaces where you were told, well, no, actually you cannot. What was that like?

Malynda Hale (15:21)
Yeah.

it was so, it

was very bizarre because my associate pastor in the church that I grew up with was a woman. So I have always seen women in leadership in, church spaces. And so to go to a school that a lot of people held the view that women shouldn't be preaching, I was like, why? It's about Jesus. It's about preaching the gospel. It's about telling people.

how to live a life that's worthy of God. Why are we putting a gender on that? Like, that makes no sense. But my junior year, they got a woman pastor and it like rocked the school. And I was like, this is so stupid, you guys. just like...

let her preach, what is the why? some people just don't think women should be preaching. And I'm like, why? And I think when I would question it, people really didn't have an answer for why, just because it's what they were told. Like they couldn't give me a good reason why anybody can't preach the gospel. Like if that's the whole thing, right? If you're gonna say that we should all be preaching the gospel, we should be telling people the good news, we should be showing people Jesus' love and telling them that Jesus, why is that only men that are allowed to do that?

And I never got an answer, just so you know, I never really got an answer. then, no, I never got an answer. And I'm not surprised I didn't get an answer because when you challenge someone's beliefs that they are just so stuck in, it freaks them out, right? They're like almost glitched. Right? It's like a malfunction. like, ⁓ they can't deal with something challenging, anything that they've.

Alexis (16:44)
He never did.

Malynda Hale (17:06)
they've thought and been taught, which I get it's, it's very scary and very daunting to grow up with something. Let's say 18 years of your life, you've heard the same thing. And then in one moment you hear something different that actually kind of makes sense, but that you also don't know how to justify because, but my whole 18 years of my life, I've heard this. So I get it. And I have grace for that. And I understand because when you're not exposed to something, difference

It can feel threatening. Difference can feel uncomfortable. there's an uncertainty in difference, right? And so I do have grace for people that grow up in these more sheltered lifestyles and churches that teach them this kind of ideology. But when you are exposed to a different idea, explore it. Like, don't be afraid of us better. that's why I talk about diversity all the time.

People think diversity is bad thing, multiculturalism, pluralism. It's a beautiful thing to understand other people's ways of life, other cultures, other belief systems. I mean, I have friends from all kinds of faith. I have a lot of Jewish friends. I have Buddhist friends. I have agnostic and atheist friends that are just great people, and I think really what it comes down to is whatever works for you to be the best person that you possibly can be, then choose that.

But if what you've chosen is making you just be a complete jerk, like rethink that, please. and I think that's kind of just what it has been for me with like the difference between conservative Christianity and what we're calling progressive Christianity is what is making you be the best person possible? What is making you lead with love? What is making you treat people a certain way? And I have just found that conservative Christianity doesn't really follow any of those ideals. And it's not something that they're leading with.

Alexis (18:51)
Yep.

Malynda Hale (18:51)
I don't

even really fully remember the question you asked. just, I, this is like a therapy session for me. I'm just like spewing. ⁓ We're just talking. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. Compare notes. Yes.

Alexis (18:54)
Good. Good. We're just having a chat. Two Christian women trying to compare notes on how we grow up.

how you said that you didn't even progressive Christianity was. You just thought it was Christianity. So I'll tell you, when I grew up,

I grew up saying, I'm a conservative Christian before I even, I didn't even know what that meant. I didn't even know when I was young, but that was the language, the vernacular that we were given is like, that's the good kind of Christian, the Bible believing Christian. I have, friends that say, that's a Bible believing church. I don't know if you've heard that one. Yeah. was a idea.

Malynda Hale (19:19)
Hmm.

Mm, yes, yes, I have.

Alexis (19:35)
around like we're the actual correct version of this faith and everybody else is putting their own spin on it, but we are not. are central. We are the most faithful the Bible, to Jesus and to God. ⁓

Malynda Hale (19:39)
Hmm.

Hmm. Hmm. Which is pretty

egotistical if you think about it.

Alexis (19:57)
Isn't it horrible?

So Tim Whitaker from the New Evangelicals talks a ton about I must admit that I forgot to also mention you are the executive director of the New Evangelicals.

Malynda Hale (20:10)
It's fine.

It's a new venture anyway. I'm still getting used to it as well.

Alexis (20:15)
Well, you've it. So I appreciate your content there, so that framework that a lot of us were given. We were given structure that kind of said, if you explore, you're actually going outside Christian beliefs, even if it was a progressive church, because a progressive church, we were told.

Malynda Hale (20:17)
Thank you. you.

Yeah.

Mmm.

Alexis (20:37)
was a church that really followed the trends of this world and their own desires and inhibitions over the word of God. So, Malynda Hale, I would just love to hear how that strikes you. lot of people who are probably listening were in very similar spaces as Tim and I were, and it doesn't matter where they are currently.

Malynda Hale (20:44)
Hmm.

Alexis (20:57)
but they have to work through that in order to even get to what you're talking about, which is go explore. It's dealing with what we're taught. Like you said, it's hard to jump out of that if you've been told that for so many years. So I'd just love to hear your perspective as a Christian,

Malynda Hale (21:03)
Mmm... Mmm...

Alexis (21:14)
what advice do you have for people who are listening are trying to work through that?

Malynda Hale (21:18)
It's hard because again, I've never had to work through that, right? And so the advice that I can give is coming from the lens of somebody that has observed people that have gone through this, talked to people that have gone through this and are trying to work through it. First of patient with yourself. Give yourself some grace. deconstructing and unlearning and relearning takes time.

Alexis (21:22)
Yeah.

Malynda Hale (21:40)
It's a process. again, this also ties back to my whole thing about self-love. You have to be able to give yourself grace with certain things to unlearn. Also, just find your trusted people that you aren't afraid to ask questions to, that you aren't afraid to have those conversations with. Because if you don't feel like you have a safe space to work through this journey, it can come crashing down very quickly aggressively.

You know what I mean? It's not an easy process to go through unlearning. there's different forms of deconstruction. There's, obviously spiritual deconstruction, but there's deconstruction like decolonization, people of color even have to like unbreak from some white supremacists like mindsets, right? It takes time to unlearn harmful theologies, harmful ideologies, but you have to give yourself grace.

I don't know beyond that what else I can say is just be patient with yourself so that you can get to that place of self love and be able to feel free because I can only imagine that it is a very freeing feeling once you get over that hump and free yourself from that. just give yourself grace.

Alexis (22:42)
Hmm, that's super helpful. was talking to a spiritual leader that I respect very much. Her name is Reverend Dr. Chris Davies She's a minister in the United Church of Christ. And she does a lot of social justice work. And she was saying what she notices is that she can tell when a lot of ex-vangelicals jump into social justice work on the side.

Malynda Hale (22:54)
Mm-hmm.

Alexis (23:05)
and they bring a lot of kind of that baggage. And I would just love to explore a little bit of this because I've been thinking a lot in the years and especially since the election, what is it that so many progressives missed? we were doing so much important work and yet, and yet it wasn't

Malynda Hale (23:10)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Alexis (23:26)
always connecting with as many people as we were hoping, in let's say white evangelical spaces.

Malynda Hale (23:32)
And because I work so much in the political sphere, I feel like I can shed some light on this overall. And I actually just wrote a article in the Courier News called, I'm not leaving progressivism, but we need to have a talk. Yeah. And yes. And so

Alexis (23:46)
Yes, I saw that. Yes. Okay, let's have a talk.

Malynda Hale (23:52)
The left. I am a bleeding heart liberal and I always will be. I will never leave the left. I am someone who wants to rebuild from the inside and fix things that are broken. And I think that we can all collectively admit that the left has some issues to work on. I think a couple of things that we're missing is

too high of expectations and not enough grace. The funny thing about the right is that they have grace, but they have grace for the wrong things.

I tried to say that without laughing, but it's true. They have grace for the wrong things. Like that's the only reason that if I could be frank, that Trump is president again, because it's like, well, he's a flawed man, why are y'all still forgiving this man for everything that he's done? It's crazy to me. So that's an example of grace, but I don't think it's the right grace that we should be following, right? But I think that we don't have enough grace for

Alexis (24:27)
No, it's true. Yeah.

Malynda Hale (24:51)
people that do mess up and maybe do want to learn and do better. I think there's a lot of purity tests on the left. I think there's a lack of empathy on the left while also calling people to have empathy. I think that we also haven't figured out how to have a collective care in our messaging. And I've made this joke before, but I'm like, I just wish that we would repurpose All Lives Matter. And that's what our motto is. Like, we care about

everybody. when whatever community needs us at any given time, that's where our focus is going to be. But you matter. So come to our side because we actually believe that all lives matter. And people are like, my God, you should do that. I'm not running for politics. Please don't ever ask me that. I actually hate them. I do not like politics. I have so many people like if you ever run, I'll be your campaign manager. If you ever run, I'll donate to you. That's great. Donate to these organizations instead. ⁓

Alexis (25:34)
I won't.

Yeah

Malynda Hale (25:46)
But yeah, I just think that we have high expectations and not enough grace, and there's a lot that we just need to work on. And I think with this last election...

there's a couple of things, I think one, we didn't try to appeal to the general audience as much as we should have. And I'm not saying that like, ⁓ for the those young white cisgender males that are now MAGA, we didn't, figure out something for them. Because that's what a lot of the like things that came back and said that they didn't feel like they had a place on the left. I'm not saying that we need to like find a messaging for that.

person, but we need to find a messaging that does coincide with everybody. Focus on, cost of living, obviously a huge thing that affects everybody. Health care affects everybody. Education affects everybody. So if we find ways to focus on certain things that we know affect the general masses, I think we would do a lot better. Trump won because he learned what groceries were a week ago.

And it's true because he's like, I'm going to get your groceries down. Groceries ain't down. Okay, groceries are expensive as all get out right now. But he learned a new word, good for him, and he used it in his campaigns and it worked because people wanted simple messaging. And that's why I just think that, I do think Dems are very, very smart, but I think that they need to learn how to dumb down their messaging a little bit So it's accessible to everybody.

So yeah,

We have a lot of work to do the left. I will never abandon this strongly believe that at the core left and the democratic party, that those values are aligned with Jesus's values. I do. I think it's very obvious in the things that Jesus did and the things that he said and the people that he spent time with and who he protected and who he healed.

Alexis (27:21)
Yes, I do too.

Malynda Hale (27:29)
It's obvious, you just read the red words. this is obvious what this man was doing, right? But we don't have a on that type of messaging. Not that I'm saying that like faith needs to be in the democratic's politics, but we don't really have handle on that messaging. But I'll never abandon that side because it doesn't align with my faith.

Alexis (27:46)
absolutely. I'm also very interested in politics. I am also a bleeding heart liberal, but spent half as a Republican, until I moved to Europe and the Iraq War and living in Europe at the time with all the protests and being exposed to people from all over the world really opened my eyes to how big the world is and also seeing the image of God in all different types of people.

you just, can't unsee what you see. You can't unlearn what you learn when you expose yourself to the diversity of this beautiful planet learning about all the ways that God reflects God's self back to all of us through differences, one of the reasons I think politics is so important right now is

Malynda Hale (28:12)
Right?

Alexis (28:27)
The research that I did after the election on Christianity and the Democratic Party didn't quite mesh what I feel like we see in our media ecosystems. Pew Research talks about how over half of the Democrats who voted in the last election consider themselves Christian, over half. And for the people who consider themselves like the nones or the spiritual or agnostic,

Malynda Hale (28:44)
Wow.

Alexis (28:50)
the majority of those people were raised in Christian homes. And so what we know is that people on the left, we speak this Christian language as well. We just reflect it potentially in very different ways. We reflect it maybe through our actions, through social justice, but we're not singing in a Denny's with our hands up high and saying, this is Christianity. So.

Malynda Hale (29:05)
Mm-hmm.

Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Alexis (29:16)
If we speak this Christian vernacular already, how can we do a better job of being more present for people in the middle and who did not vote in the last election?

that to me is the opportunity.

in politics now, like a James Tallarico right now.

Malynda Hale (29:34)
I was just

gonna say James Talarico is the perfect example of someone who is showing how obvious it is that the democratic platform is aligned with the words of Jesus. just a perfect example. is where you're going. I think that more politicians who are very, very strong in their faith need to be just as loud and proud about it as he is because this

Alexis (29:46)
Yes.

Malynda Hale (30:00)
fallacy that you can't be a Christian and a mean, that just needs to be broken down. It's not true. In fact, like you said, I'm surprised to hear those numbers that you shared, because I didn't even know that. But I think that people need to hear it from leadership know that, ⁓ OK, well, I can get on board with this kind of Christian. You know what I mean? Because right now, as it stands, Christianity has a bad

name. It has a bad name. And how could it not? I don't blame anybody for the feelings that they have towards Christians. And I know people are like, we shouldn't generalize or shouldn't generalize. However, nobody's doing anything to counter that negative stereotype. We don't have anybody. I'm trying. I'm trying my hardest. But we don't have anybody to counter those negative stereotypes. I think James is doing a great job. And what I love about it is that

Alexis (30:43)
Well, you are.

Malynda Hale (30:55)
He's not trying to blur the lines of church and state. He still believes in the separation of church and state, but he's very clear about what his faith informs him to do. And his faith informs him to care for people, to make sure people have healthcare, to make sure that we have access to, education, that to make sure that we have voting rights, to make sure that we have all of these things, because that's what is inherently

Alexis (31:01)
Yes.

Malynda Hale (31:22)
said this before, like if you are gonna try to rule the government by your faith, why aren't you doing it for good? Why aren't you using it for good? Why aren't you gonna be the example that Jesus set? why aren't you gonna show people like, hey, I know Christians, we get a bad rap, but this is what I believe and this is what I'm gonna be advocating for. Do you know how many people, if you, let's say you actually are trying to convert people and bring people to Jesus.

Do you know how people probably would convert if that's how they were leading in that way? That'd be so beautiful. Be like, oh my God, these people care about me being able to provide for my family. They care about my healthcare. They care about my education and they're Christian. Let me see what's up with being a Christian. Let me go check this out. You know what I mean? But that's not what we're doing. That's not what this administration is doing for sure. And we don't have enough Democrats out there being loud and proud about their faith. And I would just love to see more people do that. I mean, I talk about my faith.

Alexis (32:05)
Hmm.

Malynda Hale (32:17)
Definitely more now since I've been leading the New Evangelicals, but I've always talked about it and thrown it in that the reason I feel the way that I do and what I do with my activism and why I make the choices that I do is because of my belief system. And then people were like, you're the only Christian I like. Like, that's what I I hear that from so many people. I hear that from so many people. I'm like, I don't want to be the only Christian you like, but I'm glad that I made the list.

But yeah, long story short, I just think that politicians that are Christians that are Democrats should be a little bit louder about their faith.

Alexis (32:44)
Yeah, and I, yeah.

Yeah, and the thing is, I don't even understand. This is the opportunity to do that because the House and the Senate, on the Democratic and Independent side, the numbers are even higher for the ones who claim that they're Christians, Catholic, Protestant, anywhere on there. They're like 70s, 80s, 90 % in the House and Senate. They already are Christians. And so it's like, guys, we can speak the Christianese vernacular. I know that your faith, I can see it in Christian faith in Jesus.

Malynda Hale (33:06)
Yeah, yeah.

Alexis (33:19)
And I know that on the left, we do our best to make space for every identity, every identity. We don't want to upset anybody. And that's very beautiful. I think it's beautiful that we make room for diversity. And I think in this moment, I think people, I mean, I don't know about you, but I have a lot of friends that are not religious and they're real happy that I'm speaking out right now about how my faith informs the values that I'm trying to fight for.

Malynda Hale (33:24)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

yeah, I think it's so important. And I think also stating that you are a Christian, stating that this is what you believe while also encouraging multiculturalism and pluralism is an even stronger stance. you want religious freedom for everybody. And again, people just need to be louder about it. I'm a Christian, but I want to be able to have an interfaith

Alexis (33:57)
Yes.

Malynda Hale (34:10)
Community I want to be able to have an interfaith society. We used to be called the great American melting pot. What the heck happened now? It's just like I was gonna make a bad joke

Alexis (34:20)
Yeah

Malynda Hale (34:23)
I'm not, no, I was just going to say now it's just like a pot of mayonnaise, but like that's what it-

Alexis (34:24)
Bring it, bring it, Malynda.

With a little, yeah, yeah, it's hilarious. It's like bad fondue know? I always liked the salad analogy much better than the melting pot. You ever heard of that? Yeah, I like that one. Yeah, they're just trying to pick all the good stuff out of the salad.

Malynda Hale (34:31)
It's just like bad fondue.

It's just bad fondue.

Yeah. yeah, I love the salad analogy too. And right now it's just iceberg letters. That's what they're trying to make it.

All the good stuff, the

carrots, the tomatoes, the dressing, the vegetables, like the cheese, the walnuts. mean, come on, this is like a good salad. my God, all of it. They're taking all of it out. And it's like, why? It's so boring. It is so boring. Diversity is one of the most beautiful gifts from God that we have. And I love knowing people from different

Alexis (34:52)
Yeah, those walnuts. The pepper.

Malynda Hale (35:15)
I think one of the things that I wish people would their powers for is food. Figure out a way to make that cultural conversation get people to change their perspectives a lot. Because it's interesting to me that you have all these people that are against multiculturalism and pluralism, but then they're just gonna take their butt down to go get a taco or go to a Thai restaurant. I'm like, do you?

Do you understand what's happening right now? Like this is somebody else's culture. There's a story behind this. There's history behind this. This is probably somebody's grandmother's recipe. Like get to know that person, get to know that culture a little bit. But they just don't think of it that way for some reason. so frustrating, but I wish food, people would use food as like a way to bring people together and to unify and to have those conversations and hopefully change minds. I know food works for me.

Alexis (36:04)
Yes.

I'd love to talk about God and His Gun because every time I put that song on, it gets me in my gut, that's what you want with music. You want it to connect you.

to something bigger than just the music, right? And it helps me connect to the message of what you're speaking about. And it helps me connect to God in that that video is so incredibly beautiful.

will you walk with me and talk with me and tell me all the reasons that your God hates me? Can you justify how you sleep at night when all your thoughts and prayers turn into diatribes

I see you try and point the finger, sitting in your anger and never help a stranger. Wow. You think that Jesus would approve of the images you use that make him more like you. Your fear is haunting you, you're coming undone. You could choose to love, but instead you run.

Malynda Hale (40:55)
Hmm. Hm. Yeah. Yeah.

You

Alexis (41:12)
So I'll leave you to God and his gun. Can you tell us a little bit about this project, Malynda?

Malynda Hale (41:19)
Yeah, so I wrote this song with my friend Ian Felchlin. He very good friend. He was my guitar player when I was a worship leader for six years at a church. I remember I was on a walk and I remembered the song, What If God Was One Of Us by Joan Osborne. Do you remember that song? What if God was one of us? Right. And I was like,

Alexis (41:35)
yes.

Malynda Hale (41:39)
We need a newer version of that song. Because I love that song. And I think that song's message is also still very applicable. Because I truly believe and people joke about this, like if Jesus were to actually arrive and the rapture were to happen, they would deport him because it was. Yeah, we're still here. We have another day though. It's the 23rd or the 24th. So who knows? We get another day. Anyways, so I was I was on walk and I remember that song and I listened to it and I was like, I want to write a new version of this song.

Alexis (41:53)
Rapture was supposed to happen today, by the way. We're still here!

we get another day, okay. All right.

Malynda Hale (42:08)
And so I text my friend Ian, said, hey, can you, don't know, just send me like a guitar track. Just, I want to write something, just see. And he's like, okay, like that could be anything. What do you want? So I was like, I want to write this type of version of the song. Give me, you know, something kind of this vibe, a little bit haunting. He sent a guitar track and I already kind of started to write a melody. I started to write that chorus. I see it. I started to have that in my head.

and he sent me a guitar track and it lined up perfectly. I was like, ⁓ okay, this song's supposed to happen. Wrote the lyrics. He helped me with some of the lyrics, but I had the chorus already and I recorded it really quickly and sent it back to him. And he was like, this, like, this is, this is it. And so my friend Daniel

artwork for the cover of the song when I just released it on Spotify. And then I shared it with my friend Michael, who I actually went to the Jimmy Kimmel show with tonight. He was like, you need to do a video for this. And I was like, yeah, I want to. And he was like, I want to direct it. I was like, OK, cool. So the whole video concept was his idea after listening to the song. He came up with the dancing, being in the church.

all of those things. And had this idea at the end that I wanted to have all these voices saying different lines that you've heard from people in the church as I was leaving the church. Because I wanted it to show like, this is why I'm leaving the church because I'm tired of hearing all of these things. And unfortunate that this song continues to be relevant. But

I feel so blessed that I was given the spark of inspiration when I did to write it because gets a new audience every year. interesting how it gets a new audience every year because it remains relevant. I don't want it to be relevant. You know what I mean? Like, I don't want it to be relevant. I don't want these words.

Alexis (44:07)
Yeah.

Malynda Hale (44:10)
to ring true for so many people and for that to be people's lived experiences. yeah, it's really one of the most powerful songs and videos that I've ever done and I will continue to share it and I hope it continues to move people and gets people to think because it's poignant, it's necessary, it's, like I said, it's relevant. And I think if it can get people

have just a moment to realize how much damage is being done in Jesus's name.

I would hope that they would want to course correct and fix the fact that the reason people are leaving the church is not because of Jesus and it's not because of

Alexis (44:54)
I don't love the idea that the church is a monolith, and that's part of what I'm discovering here on the sacred slope is there's so many versions and lenses. There's over 45,000 denominations in the world of Christianity. We do not celebrate and worship God in the same way. Right? What is your hope for the Christian faith?

Malynda Hale (45:06)
Yeah.

Not at all.

I think it is more important for people to be the church outside of the church than it is to be the church inside the church. And I think people need to put their faith into action. I just said this the other day on a reel I did for the New Evangelicals that people are so focused on spreading the good news when they should be focused on being the good news. And I think that that's what I want to see Christianity focus on.

Alexis (45:35)
Oof. Yes.

Malynda Hale (45:41)
Jesus did, give the Sermon on the Mount. he preached the gospel, but he also showed it. And I think that we are not focused on how we show our love and show our connection to God and show the gospel, right? We're just always talking about it. Like, stop talking about it. Be about it. Do it.

Alexis (46:00)
Yep. Yeah.

Malynda Hale (46:02)
Show it. Actions do speak louder than words. That is a phrase for a reason. it doesn't exist in a vacuum. That's just what it is. Actions speak louder than words. someone said this to me and I'm like, God, that is so true. People don't care if Jesus loves them. People care if you love them because you are who they are with in this moment. But when they realize that you love them because you have this love for Jesus, then maybe

that'll lead them to Jesus or maybe it won't. But we need to be focused on how we treat people and not telling people that they should believe what we believe because it's gonna push people away. We have to focus on how we're putting our faith in action, how we're treating others, how we're showing up in the world because then people will be like, you're really loving, you're really open. Like, what do you do? What do you believe? And then we can tell them, right?

Alexis (46:38)
Mm-hmm.

Malynda Hale (46:55)
this is what I believe, this is what I follow, and that's what informs my every move and every day. And we need more of that. And I think that if we can get to that point, we will see a lot of healing. And honestly, we probably see a lot more unity because we would be in a place where Jesus and God is the center, but love is the center. mean, God equals love, right? Jesus equals love.

Alexis (47:21)
Yes. Yep.

Yep.

Malynda Hale (47:24)
But

love is the center. And I don't think it is idealistic to think that that can happen. I do think it's very possible. And what I'm trying to do is hold space for even those people that I disagree with, that have harmed people that I love, but try to get them to see the world in a more loving, empathetic, inclusive way. I think there are people that you're not gonna be able to reach, but those people that you can see kind of a glimmer of hope in, don't give up on them.

Don't give up on them yet. Be the change and be the hands and feet of Jesus. That's what we're called to do.

Alexis (48:01)
Yeah. I keep coming back this year, keep coming back to the fruit of the spirit. That is so dang biblical. Like, let's just do what we can do to be producing that fruit is our fruit of the spirit. is that what we're, putting out of the world? Yeah. over where I wanted to be. ⁓ it was so great.

Malynda Hale (48:05)
Yes.

Yeah.

you're fine. You're great. It was wonderful. That was a really healing

conversation. So thank you.

Alexis (48:23)
Can I ask you one more lightning round question? what is your favorite worship song or hymn that stirs you?

Malynda Hale (48:29)
Always his eyes on the sparrow.

Alexis (48:30)
Malynda Hale thank you so much for joining us.

Malynda Hale (48:31)
Always. ⁓ Thank

you. Thank you so much.

Alexis Rice (48:41)
Thank you for being with us today on the Sacred Slope. If you'd like to nominate a pastor, priest or reverend, send me an email at Alexis@thesacredslope.com. Music was by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin and Sean Spence. I'm Alexis Rice, your host. may the fruit of the spirit guide you this week.

Go in peace, friends.